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Lit What felt like the most near-universe-breaking things in both Legends and New EU?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Ghost, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 22, 2005
    Aside from vaders sole line of "several transmissions were beamed to this ship...", what mismatches?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
     
  2. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    My thoughts on a few of these

    Palpatine reborn-didn't bother me at all immortality and the pursuit therof are integral to Palpatine's motivations.

    The Vong and Ysalamiri-no issue different "wavelength".

    Han's patriotism for Corellia-you could probably explain it as a mid life rebellious streak maybe with a sense of reborn Corellian nationalism or rediscovered Corellian nationalism?

    Luke's desire to kill Jacen-by invincible this wholly understandable given Jacen's actions-as Jedi GM one can argue that he should be above this but still the urge is understandable.

    Daala-I agree this is hard to square-though I've seen arguments that make some sense in at least showing how it's plausible.

    A few Nucanon ones

    Rey's strength in the force-this does break my immersion no training, no experience, no learning.

    The FO going from "Nazis hiding in Argentina" to empire that destroys the republic in a day and conquers the Galaxy-this makes no IU sense at all.

    Sith temple on coruscant-how and why did the Jedi not sense this? If they knew this surely they would be more circumspect about having their own temple nearby.
     
  3. MrDarth0

    MrDarth0 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Oct 3, 2015
    I want them to mention midichlorians in IX so badly! [face_laugh]
     
  4. PCCViking

    PCCViking Force Ghost star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014
    The First Order isn't that big of a deal breaker. Maybe if TFA had taken place a short time after ROTJ (ala the Thrawn Trilogy). But at least 30 years have passed, which is more than enough time to build up its strength under the radar.
     
  5. bizzbizz

    bizzbizz Jedi Knight star 4

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    Dec 16, 2015
    daala becoming chief of state would be like kim jong becoming us president
     
  6. Yunzabit

    Yunzabit Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 5, 2015

    I think Abrams knows better
     
  7. mnjedi

    mnjedi Jedi Master star 3

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    Nov 4, 2012
    Old Canon

    Force pushing an entire fleet, including an SSD out of system in Darksaber. Starkiller ripping a single Destroyer out of the sky has nothing on that.

    New Canon

    Hyperspace Ram.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
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  8. PCCViking

    PCCViking Force Ghost star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014
    To be fair, the SSD wasn't Force pushed. Daala arrived in the Yavin system in the SSD after Pellaeon's fleet had been pushed away.
     
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  9. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    It also helped that Dorsk-81 was acting as a focus for a whole bunch of Jedi acting at once. Throw in a Sith Temple for amplification, and the fact that the whole thing killed him, and we have a reason for why the technique is never used again.
     
  10. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    And as for Starkiller it was more of a controlled descent than anything-it just took Yoda's "size matters not" and made a logical extrapolation.

    I never understood why this was criticized-Yoda does say that size doesn't matter for a Jedi.

    And overall in an EU context the feat isn't that impressive.
     
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  11. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

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    May 3, 2015
    Yeah Yoda said "size doesn't matter". And Vader said "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force", yet I think people would be understandably upset if the next movie showed some Sith Lord blowing up planets left and right by making finger guns at them. When you have magic in a fictional setting, you have to have some limits to it so you can explain why characters don't use it to solve every problem.

    I will agree though that I never had much of a problem with the Starkiller Stardestroyer scene.
     
  12. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    One thing TFU showed consistently was that Starkiller had a lot of raw power and potential-but in the end he was still beaten.

    Starkiller is like a club with pointed spikes-blunt and heavy but precise enough to overpower or cut through most opposition. He starts to struggle when he can't batter his way through a situation or faces an opponent who won't buckle under his assault-he even struggles if they can give as good as they get. And when faced with an enemy greater than himself-he will pummel and pummel but eventually he'll end up losing.

    He lacks refinement and doesn't really grasp the more mystical or abstract aspects of the force or the powers associated with those aspects. He's a precision wrecking ball.

    But yeah that scene never bothered me
     
  13. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 10, 2014
    I think it had more to do with the Star Destroyer being in atmosphere and he manipulated it by causing massive turbulence, was not like he pulled it out've space. Am sure the Force could cause EMP-like disturbances too which could've caused the onboard systems power to go dead and make them " dead in the sky".

    The idea of TFU was that the Force was out've balance, there was too much Dark Side and thus raw unlimited power.
     
  14. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Nov 26, 2017
    Rey and Ren's ability levels are a "jury's out" thing thing for me. TFA and moreover its trailers seemed to hint that the "awakening" meant that the Force was back in some new form and things were going to be a little different this time. That thread has since been either dropped or never really there, just extrapolation from promo material. So it might be a wash in which case this will be a bit of a problem for me; then again JJ is back in control of IX, so if this "new Force dynamic" really was supposed to be a thing, he might pick it back up.

    Re: R1 and ANH mismatches: I know it's arguable that technically there are no real continuity problems that can't be handwaved, but the intent of the beginning of ANH is (to me) clearly not what R1 shows happening moments earlier. In AHN I see a Star Destroyer catching up with a ship that might be plausibly moving from one point of origin, toward Alderaan, which is why both the captain and Leia try to bluff Vader. That simply "feels" at odds with the idea that Vader just literally watched the ship fleeing a battle that he participated in. Yeah, it can be made to work, but it "feels" off because something else was intended as the backstory for what these people and ships had been up to and the performances reflect that disconnetion... again, to me.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  15. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    The rogue one ending and ANH beginning is incongruent.

    There is no way Leia can maintain plausible deniability after just having been seen fleeing from and previously participating in a battle.

    It doesn't fit well with the way the scene and context in ANH are described.
     
  16. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

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    May 3, 2015
    I mean, when the Space Cops pull you over, your ship fires back, and the boarding party is met by a bunch of people with guns, any pretense of "diplomatic mission" is already moot. Leia's line was always supposed to be a flimsy excuse.

    And even if you don't buy that, there's no reason SHE would know that Vader just saw her ship leaving Scarif with his own eyes like 20 minutes ago. (Though I'm of the opinion that it could have been anywhere between minutes and days, given how wonky hyperspace travel times can be. Also if Leia knew that Vader was like 5 minutes behind her, she wouldn't have tried to stop at Tatooine to pick up Ben, which to me lends credence to the idea it was a longer trip).
     
  17. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Nov 26, 2017
    Like I said, it's easy to argue that it matches and it's easy to argue that it doesn't. Although I'd be pretty sure that the Tantive IV would have easily been able to ID the particular Star Destroyer that made them have to haul out of Scarif (which makes the Captain's denials weirder than Leia's). And that fact that they *were* trying to stop at Tatooine is a further argument that the beginning of ANH and the end of R1 are at odds in terms of story intent.

    Yeah, it can work, if you want it to. The very strong read I've always had of ANH is -- the Empire is has been maintaining a pretense of democracy for a while, and the "straight world" members of the Rebellion have been going along with it. This is the very moment where that pretense ends on both sides: the Empire doesn't care any more because they have the Death Star, and because of the Death Star, the senatorial rebels can't distance themselves from the active cells any more. But the idea that Senator Leia Organa, wishing to maintain plausible deniability for herself and her people, was actually a part of that "first victory" as opposed to just the recipient of the plans... nah, that's not what was intended, at all, and I still feel that. Everyone on the Tantive IV seems to be wigged out that they're in over their heads, as opposed to bracing for Part II of the traumatic experience they've just been through.
     
  18. Jedi Princess

    Jedi Princess Jedi Master star 3

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    Mar 25, 2014
    Well the title of the movie is The Force Awakens. Episode II already established that the dark side was limiting the Jedi's abilities; now that the Sith have been destroyed, it makes sense to me that there would be a sort of spiritual BOOM after that.
     
  19. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 22, 2005
    It's definitely better than Force projection killing someone.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  20. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    Well that's a flaw I'm of the mind isn't necessarily one.

    Vader already knows. HE'S ATTACKING THE VESSEL.

    Leia is just trying one last bit of BP (Bantha Poodoo) and Vader waves it off just like you'd expect him to.

    If it was Ozzel, it might have been an argument.

    "There's a lot of Corellian Corvettes. Oh crap, what if it was a mistake!"
     
  21. Yunzabit

    Yunzabit Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 5, 2015
    Yes I see your point but in Old canon, their were TONS of dark siders running around, but Luke was always Number 1. Rey progresses faster than any Jedi I've ever seen and their is still Snoke and the Knights of Ren polluting the Force. Pre-TLJ, I always thought Luke would be a beast, but it seems he can only hold off his nephew to buy time and he is terrified by Rey's power. Old canon was like "Kyp Durron. Meh. He's not all that".
     
  22. Jedi Princess

    Jedi Princess Jedi Master star 3

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    Mar 25, 2014
    We've seen no indication (and indeed, every indication to the contrary) that Snoke's power "clouds everything" the way Sidious' did. "Dark Sider" and "Sith" are two different things, after all, and while no one has come out and said what differentiates Snoke from Sidious, there are plenty of ways we can infer from what we see on screen.
    "How Jedi choose to win, the question is."

    Or put another way, "power" has never been, nor should ever be, the end game for a Jedi. The fact that Luke is not "a beast" is actually a good thing.
     
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  23. firesaber

    firesaber Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 5, 2006
    Centennial Chicken in Legends of Luke Skywalker.
     
  24. Yunzabit

    Yunzabit Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 5, 2015

    But I still feel being knocked down by a barely trained Force-sensitive in a makeshift fight with sticks is VERY odd. She must be uber-powerful
     
  25. Lukers

    Lukers Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jun 16, 2016
    The old EU was pretty bad about this though. Revan basically became a Force god in a weeks time after being mind wiped lol.