Full Series What happened "over 2000 years" before "Overlords"?

I know some people hate/ignore the Abeloth stuff from FotJ, but the whole idea that Talzin could be a manifestation of Abeloth (who also seems to the absent Mother of Mortis) is pretty cool to me. That would mean that perhaps the true Dathomiri Talzin was replaced by Abeloth, unbeknownst to the Nightsisters. I kinda hope that's never covered on TV; I don't know that TV writers would have the kid gloves to handle that nugget of mythology. Perhaps an in-universe text by Daniel Wallace (who wrote the Book of Sith) could suffice...

Anyway, just throwing that out there. Anybody can try to debunk the possibility simply on the basis that they don't like the concept of Abeloth, but to me, this kinda thing would go a long way to explain Talzin's abilities and tie up some loose ends.

 

Its not just the echo in her voice. She also has the same glowing green eyes as the Father and shares the same abnormal height as the Mortis family. She towers over the other Nightsisters. It wouldn't surprise me if there's more to her than just being a witch that worships the Mortis family as gods.

 

Xendor met the Ones as well. It was mentioned in the Essential Guide to Warfare.

 

According to the wook, Abeloth would be imprisoned during the Nightsisters arc, and then Mortis follows. If I'm correct, Abeloth is imprisoned only when the Force is...rattled or something (god, I really hate the EU sometimes). Normally, its the duty of Son and Daughter to contain Abeloth, and since they're dead now, Abeloth must have been freed after their deaths. So, unless Talzin's body is the prison, I don't think Talzin = Abeloth = the Mother.



Look, I don't think there's an Abeloth. No, really, look at that picture and explain to me how a marshmallow octopus on acid is a good idea for a character. I think the idea reeks of an overly-creative fanfic author. Largely I ignore the EU, unless its Republic comics or Darth Plagueis and Labyrinth of Evil. I've considered the possibility that Talzin's "funny voice" is due to her status in the tribe. Maybe she's possessed by a female spirit, thus giving her authority in the tribe. Maybe that spirit gave birth to Son and Daughter, I don't know. Mostly I think Talzin's voice of legion is a sound effect to make her more scary/unsettling, nothing more.

 

I wasn't saying anything about the voice, as much as her "dematerializing" abilities.

But again, most people say they ignore stuff they don't like, and personally I find that bad for continuity. Whether I like somebody or not, overall I'd just like everything to have a place, and I'd like the idea that maybe Dathomir was a sort of prison for Abeloth. Talzin obviously couldn't leave, after all.

 

The Nightsisters were doing okayish against the droids but their undoing was the Army of the Dead. The Nightsisters had depended too much on them so when Grievous killed the Nightsister giving life to the Army of the Dead the Nightsisters froze for too many crucial seconds allowing the droids, who paused for only two seconds or so, time to gun down the shocked and bewildered Nightsisters.

But thanks Circular Logic for that tidbit about the Nightsisters. It's something to think on.

 

That's cool, I'm not saying anything against your opinion. I just wanted to express my own for the sake of discussion. And you're right about the voice. It was agentkrycek that brought it up, not you.

Re: imprisonment, Abeloth was contained on her own planet.

Re: Talzin, she could leave. She personally delivered Savage to Serenno. But without that shuttle, I doubt she'd want to leave Dathomir. I think the isolation of the Nightsisters is self-induced. She has the ability to astral-project and, I assume, a holoprojector.

OK, back on topic: the 2000 year old message...

 

Was it a 2000 year old msg, or a signal that hasn't been used in over 2000 years?

 

You're right, my bad! Here's the actual wording:
"Mysterious message! A transmission has been intercepted far beyond the Outer Rim, deep in the Chrelythiumn system. Why the call has been made, and from where cannot be established. But buried in the message is a Jedi distress code that has not been used in over 2,000 years."

 

Is this from the Book of the Sith or some other official source? Or just your speculation?

 

I need to re-watch the eppy er, trailer...

 

Pretty sure they are mentioned in the Book of Sith, in the passage written by Mother Talzin. Also mentioned in the "Nightsisters" Wook article, if you are curious.

You are welcome.

 

Thanks Circular Logic I already knew I needed to get that book but now I know I need it soon...

 

In the EU, nobody remembers what happened a day ago.

 

There are better pics.

For example:

Spoiler

 

Better images/concepts won't change my opinion concerning Abeloth. Personally, I don't need a Mother to understand where Son and Daughter come from. These beings are gods and probably just exist, like the Hellenic gods. (Aphrodite, for instance, has an interesting birth that didn't require a mother, and let's not forget that Anakin doesn't have a father.) And mostly because... Its. Not. Real.

I won't bash it, but I must admit that literature post-ROTJ does not appeal to me. At. All. I just can't do it. The same is true for pre-prequel era lit. So that is why, when I watch The Clone Wars, I don't get all bent out of shape. Because I prefer non-EU GL-only Sith, I think the Mortis trilogy is better without Son's Darth-advisors.

And now I'll do my best to steer this back to the topic of the thread. As I mentioned earlier, for me, the 2000 year old distress code related to the Father hiding his powers from the emergence of the unnamed Jedi that left the Order and his band of followers. Yep, some people call that Jedi Phanius/Darth Ruin, but until I hear that GL is on board with that, I'm sticking with:

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who enjoys the EU-less saga!

 

cwustudent

As much as I like the EU I too feel that it can't stand against GL. GL said something that went against the EU - the Mandalorians - and the EU is then trying to explain how both versions can exist.

It is possible that Mother Talzin is connected to them in more ways then worshiping the Children. Talzin also has a motive that is unknown.

 

The initial version of Darth Bane:

​

The Sith had come into being almost two thousand years ago. They were a cult given over to the dark side of the Force, embracing fully the concept that power denied was power wasted. A rogue Jedi Knight had founded the Sith, a singular dissident in an order of harmonious followers, a rebel who understood from the beginning that the real power of the Force lay not in the light, but in the dark. Failing to gain approval for his beliefs from the Council, he had broken with the order, departing with his knowledge and his skills, swearing in secret that he could bring down those who had dismissed him.​

​

He was alone at first, but others from the Jedi order who believed as he did and who had followed him in his study of the dark side soon came over. Others were recruited, and soon the ranks of the Sith swelled to more than fifty in number. Disdaining the concepts of cooperation and consensus, relying on the belief that acquisition of power in any form lends control, the Sith began to build their cult in opposition to the Jedi. Theirs was not an order created to serve; theirs was an order created to dominate.​

​

Their war with the Jedi was vengeful and furious and ultimately doomed. The rogue Jedi who had founded the Sith order was its nominal leader, but his ambition excluded any sharing of power. His disciples began to conspire against him and each other almost from the beginning, so that the war they instigated was as much with each other as with the Jedi.​

​

In the end, the Sith destroyed themselves. They destroyed their leader first, then each other. What few survived the initial bloodbath were quickly dispatched by watchful Jedi. In a matter of only weeks, all of them died.​

​

All but one. ​

​

Darth Maul shifted impatiently. The younger Sith had not yet learned his Master's patience; that would come with time and training. It was patience that had saved the Sith order in the end. It was patience that would give them their victory now over the Jedi.​

​

The Sith who had survived when all of his fellows had died had understood that. He had adopted patience as a virtue when the others had forsaken it. He had adopted cunning, stealth, and subterfuge as the foundation of his way- old Jedi virtues the others had disdained. He stood aside while the Sith tore at each other like kriks and were destroyed. When the carnage was complete, he went into hiding, biding his time, waiting for his chance.​

​

When it was believed all of the Sith were destroyed, he emerged from his concealment. At first he worked alone, but he was growing old and he was the last of his kind. Eventually, he went out in search of an apprentice. Finding one, he trained him to be a Master in his turn, then to find his own apprentice, and so to carry on their work. But there would only be two at any one time. There would be no repetition of the mistakes of the old order, no struggle between Siths warring for power within the cult. Their common enemy was the Jedi, not each other. It was for their war with the Jedi they must save themselves. ​

​

The Sith who reinvented the order called himself Darth Bane. ​

​

A thousand years had passed since the Sith were believed destroyed, and the time they had waited for had come at last.​

​

has him recruit a male replacement when he's old. The EU had him recruit a female apprentice (Darth Zannah), while he was still in the prime of life.
Since even novelization content can be superseded by later works- Zannah is Bane's "official" apprentice.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some fan wrote a story that got licensed. That doesn't make it superior. Or good, for that matter.

 

Are you talking about TCW?

 

It tends to be the other way round- Lucasfilm hiring a writer to write a story filling in the background for a period.

 

C-canon is allowed to supersede itself?

 

darklordoftech

What is in the movies is the highest level of canon (and I count a majority of the content of the novelizations, RotS is the only one with stuff that isn't quite up there) then stuff from TCW is behind that, then come the books and after that are the comics and video games at the very bottom rung of the ladder.

 

Novelizations of movies are considered at least partially G-canon.

RoTS isn't the only one with stuff that's changed in the movie, or stuff that's been decanonized.

RoTJ- Endor Moon has no planet in novel- in Ewok Adventures movies, it has a planet- the Essential Atlas clarifies it has a planet at the time of RoTJ as well.