CT What happened to that huge Imperial fleet after Death Star 2 blows up?

Rewatching it for the first time in a while, as I'm sure many are, I never realized the full extent of the trap that the Emperor had set for the Alliance. He orders the fleet to the far side of the forest moon and when the Rebels arrive out of hyperspace they are not only confronted with DS2 that blows several ships up, but at one point the camera pans to reveal dozens if not hundreds of imperial star destroyers that are ordered to hold their fire to show off the DS. Even though the rebels blow up DS2 what happened with that massive imperial fleet? Apparently they just turned around and left after the DS blew up? It seems the fighting comes to an abrupt end since everyone flies home to celebrate with the Ewoks. I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts or material from the EU on this.

 

The loss of the Death Star demoralized them, and they fled to fight another day.

 

Not just the Deathstar but the loss of their own command ship.

Really if you watch the films rather than go by the EU I think the Imp officers in ESB and ROTJ almost all come across as craven and brow beaten by Vader and the Emperor, not at all surprising that they would turn tail when things weren't going there way.

 

I know that a lot of ships were destroyed in the Battle Of Jakku. It was the last battle between Rebels and Empire.

 

Hmmm, this reminds me of that climactic battle scene in "Pirates of The Caribbean: At World's End", when the British fleet made a quick getaway when the "Endeavor" (Cutler Beckett's ship) was blasted to bits by the "Pearl" and "Flying Dutchman"...

So I won't be surprised that the Imperial guys did the same, after losing their top two leaders as well as the flagship battle-station - very demoralizing and humiliating for them to continue!

 

According to the ESB screenplay an Imperial fleet or battle group consisted of one command ship / Super Star Destroyer and five regular Star Destroyers.

What we can see and count in the ROJ screenshoot is the Emperor's Super Star Destroyer and 28-30 regular ones, this could suggest that six Imperial fleets were participating under the command of one SSD (with the Executor and other Super Star Destroyers maintaining a presence elsewhere not to alarm the Alliance to the fact that the bulk of regular Star Destroyers has gone missing).

What happened to these Star Destroyers when the Death Star blew up is everybody's guess. We do know that Ackbar had first hand information that the Death Star was going to blow (both fleets must have been in close proximity to it because according to novelization and video storyboards the Alliance ships started to bombard the Death Star as soon as its protective shield had gone), so he ordered the Rebel fleet to retreat and put a healthy distance between itself and the Death Star.

Did the Imperial fleet get the same kind of warning? With the destruction of the Emperor's SSD (and the previous destruction of the Empire's main communications ship according to the original screenplay and the novelization) there is a high probability that most Star Destroyers didn't have a clue what was about to be happening - and probably perished in the explosion of Death Star II.

The presence of Wedge Antilles during the Endor victory celebration seems to support that. IMHO, Red Leader would have stayed on active duty, had any Imperial ships survived (to return later).

 

Actually "The Emperor's Super Star Destroyer" seen at Endor, is specifically the Executor, in newcanon reference works. References to it being a different ship called the Eclipse are erroneous.

 

yeah it's vader's ship.

 

I consider "nuCanon" to be anything but reliable, bearing in mind that already three different nuCanon works cannot agree on a simple detail what the black sandtrooper pauldron / epaulette stands for.

1. Fact: It's the Super Star Destroyer the Emperor used to arrive at the Death Star (while Vader used a regular Star Destroyer)
2. Fact: Although the name Executor for Vader's Super Star Destroyer was revealed first in The Art of the Empire Strikes Back and prior to ROJ, neither ROJ screenplay, novelization or else identified the SSD as being the Executor.
3. Fact: Solo identified the SSD as one of "many command ships" and TFA has finally re-emphasized this
4. Fact: Executor had 9 balcony bridge windows, the Emperor's SSD had 11
5. Fact: Aboard Executor the crewpit consoles were aligned parallel to the central gangway, the Emperor's SSD features the different crewpit arrangement as the SD Avenger did.
6. Fact: The bridge of Executor was crowded by Imperial controllers in jumpsuits, military officers and security personnel, in contrast and with the exception of Piett and the fleet captain next to him the entire bridge personnel of the Emperor's SSD consists of black security personnel
7. Fact: The (somewhat erroneous) editing in ROJ suggests that behind the port side of the control deck there is another alcove with windows ("In attack position now, Sir") while aboard Executor it's a stairway down which Vader uses at the end of ESB

Neither can I bring myself to simply ignore these observations or come up with some constructed rationalizations why the SSD in ROJ should still be Executor.

IMHO, this is just another example for shallow and insufficient research I find myself unable to acknowledge to be authentic or accurate.

Interestingly, the mere fact that others have come to the same conclusion (i.e. that this can't be Executor) but should have a different name like "Eclipse" is rather encouraging but anything but erroneous.

 

The author admits that it's a mistake here:


https://twitter.com/OrigamiYoda/status/651441665950007296

 

Alright, then he apparently didn't do enough research to realize that the Emperor's Super Star Destroyer could have a different name or that Pablo Hidalgo is oblivious to the arguments that suggest that it's really not the Executor.

But that still doesn't change the fact that it rather looks erroneous to assume Executor was the Super Star Destroyer participating in the Battle of Endor for the reasons I just provided.
I prefer to arrive at conclusions based on what I can read and see for myself, not what I'm being told.

 

My view is that any differences can be put down to modelling choices - they reused the Avenger set for the Executor in ROTJ, with a few extra bells & whistles - because it was easier to work with, maybe.

Sometimes, when it comes to Star Wars, "your eyes can deceive you, don't trust them."

Better to blame models, than to say, for example, that the Falcon really does change size, in-universe.

 

No, as a matter of fact the production designer and crew asked George Lucas specifically to now have the control deck part of the bridge rebuilt as a whole set (where earlier most of the balcony windows were actually matte paintings).

 

Building a new set, doesn't equate to "it's a new ship" - as can be illustrated with the Falcon.

 

I'd dare to say that in all interior sets of the Falcon they always tried to be extremely faithful to the original set, which apparently doesn't apply for the bridge of the Executor, then, for many reasons I posted.

Now that TFA has established beyond a shred of doubt, that there is more than just one Super Star Destroyer / command ship, we are still unable to acknowledge that the Super Star Destroyer in ROJ was probably not the Executor?

 

The problem with making it "not the Executor" is that it means a vast quantity of newcanon media becomes wrong.

Whereas "it's a refitted Executor" doesn't raise that issue.

 

It is and always has been the Executor, regardless of minor changes made to the set. There were minor changes to the Enterprise between the first and second "Star Trek" films, and again with the Enterprise A in the fifth and sixth films. As well as the Enterprise D between the end of TNG and the seventh film. I wouldn't put much stock in a refit ship, or an alternate named ship.

 

Before the SSD was destoryed, we see at least one regular SD blow up and another lose one of its shield domes. For the most part the film is vague about what happened to the Imperial fleet. The battle looked pretty fierce so I would think any surviving SDs would be damaged, some pretty bad. As is in ROTJ, we don't see anymore SDs after the SSD crashes into DS2.

 

I'm sure they were like WTF when the realised that Vader and the Emperor were gone and took off

 

If we include the ROTJ novelization and the Heir to the Empire books, it was a combination of things. DS II's destruction took out a number of Imperial ships, while the Alliance ships pulled back from the station before the blast. In addition, Executor also rammed into several vessels when it went out of control before crashing. Finally, with Palpatine dead and his powerful Dark Side influence suddenly removed, a lot of Imperial personnel were thrown into confusion and fear, with no time to adjust and get their bearings.

As per the Zahn books, Pelleon realized that with DS II and Executor gone, a host of senior officers (including Palpatine and Vader) dead or presumed so, and the Alliance fleet taking the offensive, the battle was pretty much lost. Better to pull away, regroup, check with HQ and live to fight another day. Not all Imperials were fanatics to the point of suicide.

 

And in the newcanon, we get pretty much the same event - but with Admiral Sloane leading the retreat instead (after shooting the loyalty officer (SW equivalent of commissar) on her bridge)

 

I agree that it was the same VFX model as used in ESB (i.e. "Vader's Star Destroyer") but none of the original ROJ sources or reference books ever called it Executor although the name was established officially ahead of the ROJ production, therefore I find your statement misleading.

It's simply a EU conjecture / myth which we owe to a great deal to Timothy Zahn who felt that ship was the Executor. And do you know why? I discussed the issue with him personally in 1993 in San Marino, Italy, and he told me his reasoning was that no science fiction power would built more than one of these large and vulnerable ships but rather allocate budget to the construction of more and flexible smaller units. This has contributed to the widespread impression that Executor is the ship we see crashing into the Death Star. That assumption has entered mainstream belief.

However, TFA has proven Timothy Zahn wrong. We clearly see on Jakku the upside-down remains of another Super Star Destroyer, clarifying beyond a shred of doubt that there wasn't just one Super Star Destroyer.

If, in addition to Solo's original "there are many command ships" remark, that isn't sufficient reason to re-evaluate our take on Super Star Destroyers and in particular the Executor, then I do not know.

If you feel you want to believe it's the Executor, than that's fine. If you feel the structural and personnel bridge differences (I forgot to mention as # 8 the communications station in the central walkway...) only constitute "minor changes", that's fine, too. But please don't make it look as if that were a fact that the Super Star Destroyer the Emperor used to arrive at the Death Star could have only been the Executor.

 

Conservation of detail. Showing Piett in command in both TESB (from Hoth onward) and ROTJ seems to me to be a good hint that it's the same ship.

 

It's a possibility but not a necessity.

If he has been reduced to the rank of "captain" again (judging by his rank plaque) then probability is high that we are still aboard the Executor (no pressing reason to have him transferred to another SSD to replace a "captain" there).

But the original materials, IIRC, refer to him still as "admiral". But then, any admiral is not bound to a particular ship. A flag officer like an admiral puts his flag on the lead ship or any other he thinks will be optimal.

In ESB the Executor was apparently the lead ship in the Imperial efforts to locate the new and hidden Rebel base.

In ROJ the Emperor brings his personal Super Star Destroyer (manned almost entirely with black security personnel loyal to him) to Endor to later lead the decisive final battle against the Rebel Alliance.

So the admiral merely transferred his "flag" from one ship to another as it had been often done in naval history.

 

The Rank Plaque Problem in ROTJ is something that's been noted before - people wearing commander's insignia even when they shouldn't.


http://www.theforce.net/swtc/insignia/empire.html

• Blooper: Many of the rank badges in Return of the Jedi cannot be given serious attention, unfortunately. All of the rank badges in the film were accidentally made as naval Commander badges, even those of Admiral Piett and Moff Jerjerrod. The Return of the Jedi representations of these two officers' insignia must be rejected because they're inconsistent with the officers' known ranks. Let us hope that the blooper will be corrected by computer graphics effects in a future special edition of the film.