PT What happens to all the Clones?

Clone troopers vs Stormtroopers:
Different helmet designs, different style armor, different types of boots, Clone Troopers were FAR more colorful, both had utility belts but different in composition, and overall a very weak comparison between the two. Oh, and did I mention that Clones were all 5'7" inches in height, while every single Stormtrooper varied in height? Every. Single. One.

The only similarity between the Clone Troopers and the Stormtroopers are that they have white armor (although, CT armor isn't always white), and that they look vaguely similar, yet are completely different in quality of craftsmanship and design. You know, most of the armies of the world have very similar uniform designs, usually being digi camo or some variant thereof, so they all must be the same person according to your asinine logic here.

Why do some fans have such a raging hard on that Stormtroopers must be clones at any cost, why do you defend it to the bitter end with increasingly poor arguments and nonsensical explanations to defend this old EU concept that was wrong since day one back in the 70s? Really why do you have this intense desire to reject what the canon presents and support this Old EU fixation that the Empire never stopped using clones in favor of recruits? Recruits are completely supported within the canon and thus all other arguments against it are irrelevant.

 

Jeezus man.. Is anyone ever going to be able to discuss clones in the saga without you turning it into this debate? Im sorry what you want to be true isnt canon.. but it isnt.

Anyways.. I'd have to imagine there would be large numbers of elderly retired clones after ROTS and during most of the OT. Would the empire create special facilities (old age home/hospice) for them to live out the rest of their lives? Would they become 'private citizens' able to come and go as they please in the empire? We know that Rex, Wolffe and Greggor went off and lived on their own, but they were officers and war heroes - perhaps having a little more freedom granted to them than the rank and file clones.

 

I honestly don't get your logic except for the fact you're choosing to refer to information that, as of now, is null and void. Anything anyone ever said, and I get this is a tough pill to swallow, became questionable. DISNEY is the new canon and it is very much alive in a way I've not seen consistently in Star Wars in a long time.

What came before is gone, swept away with the Old Republic...
You can argue moot points, but the debate is over and unless you have current, canon material to support your theories instead of what someone said offhand 30 years ago, you got nothin but what you cling to.

And to your earlier point, The Grand Army WAS created truly for the Republic's protection, the story of Sifo-Dias confirms it. But it's only after the Sith learned of the plot and commandeered it for their purposes that the army became compromised. A lot of the dialogue, from clones without their bio-chips, still speak of loyalty to the Republic and the Jedi.

Plus, phasing out an army of genetically loyal clones for the recruitment of individuals from Imperial Academies IS a smart move. Academy recruits are peoples from across the galaxy, across hundreds of worlds....you're turning the galaxy to your side, to fight for your ideals, your morals... Palpatine needed a galaxy that bent to his will. Not an unending supply of clones he would need to keep fighting the galaxy with.

 

Except the galaxy did turn against him anyway as the rebels kept growing and the widespread celebrations of the Empire's demise leads to it not being very popular by the time of the OT. But I guess the 6 films are now dead canon, mute and voided, only the spin off material matters now, the films are no longer canon, how sad.

Also getting people's sons killed over and over in endlessly putting down anybody against the Empire will get the population turned against you. No, the smart move is for the Empire to "take care" of the people. Don't send your kids off to die a horrible death on some godforsaken battlefeild, let the Empire send its clones off to do the fighting for you. Afterall they are disposable and nobody will care if they get killed, plenty more where they come from. In no way wll they be used as ruthless enforcers to bend you to our will. It is better to keep your serf untrained for combat so you can control them better. This is what Europe and Japan did, they disarmed most of the population so they would be easy to control, didn't even know how to fight, and you had a special warrior class to keep the serfs in place, the clones would be the warrior class for the Empire to keep the serfs in line, but under the guise they are there to "protect" them from those nasty rebels with their awlful freedom.

Palps was smart and he knew the galaxy wouldn't like his Empire for long no matter what, but it was too late for the galaxy, he has the best army ever created, a clone one which he can out produce the battle ready populations of most planets, a huge navy, and super weapons under way. The Empire ruled though force in the OT, not by winning people over, just though brute force and the more they closed their grip, the more systems sliped though it as Leia said.

So you completely ingored answering the question and constrcted a poorman's strawman version to toss back at me, pretty damn pitifulman of a reply man, just pitiful. This tells me all you have are fallicies and nitpicks to support your argument. As I said before, the concept of stormtroopers being recriuts was one of the first things the EU got wrong, it is a old EU concept. Stormtroopers being clones was a film concept since long before the prequels. But it is always the same thing, I am winning the argument and you know guys know it so you break down to childish tactics as a last resort.

What is funny is eveybody I asked this question to refuses to answer it, come on! Man up and answer me why do you what this ultra old EU concept of stormtroopers being clones to be the correct stance, despite of what the 6 original films imply? Don't just constrct strawman versions of my question to toss back as a red herring, answer the darn question for once, I really would like to hear why people as so adamant about recruits. No more red herrings Dino, just answer the question.

Though I agree with Darth Downunder that ultimately it is all a preference and I just prefer the 6 original Lucas film's version of Star Wars over Disney's "newcanon" version of Star Wars that throws the films under the bus. Guess many fans are happy enough to throw the 6 original films under the bus too. So while the films say the clones just kept on being shock troops for the Empire which just kept cranking out new clones, the newcanon says Tinker Bell used her magic to turn all the clones into real boys (recruits) and the galaxy far far away lived happily ever after in endless war past ROTJ.

 

No, I have the canon to support me. All you have is a headcanon. It has nothing to do with "preference". Disney, Hidalgo, Lucasfilm ,or Kathleen Kennedy don't care about the preferences of who likes what TV show over what movie. There's one uniform canon. One, where anything EU or Word of God made prior to the acquiring of Lucasfilm LTD by the Walt Disney Corporation is null and void, and any statements made within the 6 movies, The Clone Wars TV series, and Star Wars: Rebels TV series IS canon. Whether or not YOU think they are Clones is irrelevant. Disney considers them recruits. Lucasfilm LTD considers them recruits. Kathleen Kennedy considers them recruits. Therefore I consider them recruits. I stand with the official stance of the creators. Do you? Also, what question? The one where you call me a bitter fanboy clinging to a false idea? I could ask YOU the very same question. And I did. Why should I listen to erroneous statements made by people who no longer matter?

 

Except the canon isn't uniform and already disagrees with itself, it is a bad case of the inmates running the aslyum, fanboys writing fanfics as so called canon. The six fils are the only closet thing to a single canon.

It isn't head canon, as I have the films, Lucas, Lucasfilm, Hasbro, Lego, and even Hidalgo supporting my side. There are in film connections that they are clones but you seem to handwave anything in the films that you disagree with or clashes with the erroneous derivative works that make up the deeply flawed newcanon. You are only using other peoples' head canon to defend yours.





They sure don't look anything alike do they?



Clearly not an evolution of the same army.



According to newcanon and Dino4ever, A New Hope is wrong and erroneous, thank goodness for fanfic to correct these mistakes.



Clearly no connection whatsoever.



Nothing.

Now instead of creating strawman versions of my statements to toss at me as a red herring for the 20th time, why don't you man up and answer the question. No more red herrings Dino, Why do you want to defile the films and support this erroneous EU concept that stormtroopers are recruits? It sure seems like you are afraid to give me the answer.




The real reason some fans want stormtroopers to be recruits.





The reality for in movie stormtroopers and some fans.

 

Silencer87, yes, portions of the galaxy did indeed ultimately rise up against the Empire. But as we're shown in the OT, it's not a huge movement capable of direct conflicts like the Republic/Separatist battles of old. It's hit and run, guerilla warfare, all or nothing sorta thing. It's not a galaxy wide movement until people start realizing after Endor that the Empire CAN be defeated. But all the while...they were content to remain under its heel. The missing piece was the Death Star, which would have solidified the bending the galaxy to your will thing.
Yes, the celebrations at the end (though they've been confirmed as happening at different time points not exactly after ROTJ) prove a great many people cheered the death of the Emperor and/or the Empire. But Leia herself muses in The Force Awakens novel that she underestimated the fact that the people of the galaxy really DID want to be told what to do. They missed the stability the Empire actually provided.

And your above post, again, it's moot. Old material. The new owners, the new creators of the galaxy you and I both love...have, in a way, pulled a "God flooded the world" sorta thing. Washed away the old to make way for the new, that yes, contains some elements of the old, but not everything. Give in to the new canon. It. Is. Your. Destiny.

 

Is there supposed to be a point somewhere in that collection of insults, fanboy raging, fanart, and memes? First of all, I don't think you know how canonicity works, and second of all, I don't think yuu'd be capable of looking past your fanrage even if you did. So I'm bowing out of this. You can live in your little fantasy world where licensed television shows count are "fanfic", but comic strips are "evidence" if you like. When you want to have a serious discussion, tag me.

 

So you are refusing to answer the question? Not surprised.

 

There was a question among that rambling drivel?

 

Wow, this type of stuff really confuses the fans. Especially when the writer himself/herself doesn't know what their on about. I love George Lucas and I adore everything that he's created for us, but I've noticed that he does ocassionally stray from saying one thing and it he ends up doing or saying something opposite in the end. Like now for instance in Star Wars Rebels, we all know Rex said that they retired the Clone army & we've heard that the have replaced them in favor of normal human recruits by Pablo Hidalgo of the TCW & Rebels writing team. So bassically, this article doesn't make sense anymore. Looks like Lucas muffed up abit here aha

 

You are still correct. It just seems as though Lucas might have changed his mind on the progression story aspect of the Clone Troopers & Stormies after having that article published back in 1978 aha

 

But yeah, some Jango Fett Clone troopers still went on to serve in the Imperial Military after the Clone Wars. (Most likely the last fresh batch of them did anyway). Although, it seems as though because they are Clones. A Captain, Squad Trainer or Squad Commander seems like the highest ranks a Clone Trooper is allowed to go in the Empire. If that weren't the case, we would see at least some older Clone veterans be promoted to either Generals or even Admirals on flagships. Although this still can be proven otherwise.
Since the new Canon, there have been quite a few appearances of old Clone Troopers around the OT era. You've got Rex, Wolffe & Gregor who have re appeared on Star Wars Rebels. There's Fett Clones that also appear in novels such as Lords Of The Sith, Smuggler's Run, The Crimson Corsair & The Lost Tresure of Count Dooku (Force Awakens Era) & Battlefront Twilight Company (Supposedly by characters within the story). I love how the new Canon are bring back the old Clone Troopers. There were millions that were made and anything coud have happened to them, so all of them can't be dead by the time of the Battle Of Yavin lol.

Also, this is from the ebook version of Star Wars: Smuggler's Run, which takes place just after Star Wars: A New Hope. There's a Fett Clone Trooper Sergeant by the name of ''Torrent'' who is standing next to his commanding officer, Alecia Beck. So this does prove that atleast some are still young enough to serve in the Imperial Military. Though its also mentioned in the book that they are a rarity within the Empire now due to there accelerated aging

 

I always assumed the Clones who survived through the Order 66 ordeal either went rogue or joined the Empire along with the new Imperial recruits

 

Hate it when it shinks my images Aha. Here's a bigger size one since you cant see him in the other one very well lol

 

Funny thing was in 2005 Pablo Hidalgo asked Lucas during the production of ROTS if the OT stormtroopers are clones which Lucas said yes they were. After that Pablo stated he knew they were clones in the OT and that the different voices and heights only proves the OT films were made in the 70s and were just fan nitpicks in his words. Just seems like there is a lot of flip-flopping in Star Wars. Here is Pablo's quote,

All this flip-flopping by these people is indeed confusing.

 

Yeah I know right! Also, take a look at what he said in this Rebels Recon episode in Season 1. Its like Lucasfilm still can't decide weather or not some of the old Fett Clones still served within the Empire for a time after the Clone Wars or not. Next thing they say ther're all dead, then say some are still serving.. But I mean because some of them have re-appeared recently in new Canon novels, its pretty clear that its been proven that some still remain in the Empire, even past the events of A New Hope. There just very rare. Don't get me wrong, I think Pablo, Dave & the rest of TCW & Rebels do a fantastic job. But, they really need to get down & clarify this issue once and for all because it really does tend to confuse fans, who are especially fans of the Clones, like myself. Aha
(Skip to 3:04)

 

If Lucas changed his mind between 2005 and 2008, then whatever he was thinking of by the point of the latter, was what was official. As to what Pablo said when "Rebels" started, he had said that he wasn't sure that he could get to use characters like Rex and Ahsoka in the show. When he did get permission to use them, he had to amend things.

 

The point is fans wanted Lucasfilm to sit down and settle these things, which they did a decade ago and then changed their minds, though it is unclear if it is just in the spinoff material or in the films too. Much like Lucas saying the dark side isn't stronger than the light, then he changed his mind and the dark side is the stronger side. The current opinion the writers have can easily change again in the future, especially when Filoni, Pablo, and other story group writers retire and their replacements will retcon what they did, and the replacements' replacements will retcon them and so on. It will end up like Doctor Who where each era is its own version of the series.

 

The real point is...who cares? Don't sweat the details and just enjoy the ride. Worrying about these things, and a lot of them are really not that big a deal, shouldn't affect your enjoyment. Nor should it let you affect seeing it as canon or not. If you do, then that's on you and not Lucasfilm or any other company that does this. Worrying about these things is like a Rubik's Cube. Don't worry if you cannot get it to line up, just enjoy it for what it is.

 

At my opinion, is not a bad thing that the Empire wants to replace the clones with a recruited army, it is acceptable and credible for several reasons. But, according Rebels and new canon, this process is too quickly! It should be gradual.

 

It's been fifteen years, how much more gradual does it need to be?

 

But Rebels is five years after ROTS, right?

 

14.

 

Out with the clones. In with the recruits.