CT What ideas did you have about the PT era when watching the OT?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by JDN21, Aug 25, 2013.

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  1. JDN21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2004
    star 2
    I loved the scene in ANH where Ben spoke of the Force and The Clone Wars. Before the PT illustrated the Clone Wars and the Jedi Council etc, what did you think the Clone Wars were? Did you think of the Jedi as being a structured organisation so closely aligned to the Republic?

    I thought of Jedi as being few and far between, masters of the force that would just go about their lives like everyone else, normal jobs and lifestyle, but with this stunning power. They would act when needed on the side of justice. I really like that idea of Jedi, it makes them a lot more special and mysterious than the legion of expendable Jedi we had in the PT.

    I imagined the Clone Wars as these defining events, not linked to the rise of the Empire, but having a very fundamental motivation - slavery for example.

    I'm generally not a big fan of the PT and I think the Clone Wars were mishandled. I think it should have been a war about clones (clone slaves?), rather than a war that features clones on one side. It doesn't make sense as to why they were called the clone wars just because clones fought. Droids and Jedi fought as well. We don't call World War 2 the Nazi Stormtrooper war.
  2. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Yes. They were described as guardians of peace and justice in the Republic, which to me implied some kind of law enforcement organization. I never thought of them as a bunch of vagabond warriors (that was their condition in the OT). When the PT showed the Jedi Order in its prime, it not only was somewhat similar to what I had in mind, but also expanded on that with the Jedi Temple, Jedi Council, ranks, and the whole concept of one master to one padawan. It certainly made it much more interesting.

    As for the Clone Wars, I never imagined droids were involved. In fact, I never gave it much thought (when I watched ANH for the first time, I was too young to know anything related to the concept of cloning). My imagination was limited to Ben's description and Leia's message which implied that the Jedi were high ranking officers that also fought on the battlefield.

    I think the whole point of the Clone Wars in the conversation was to make the scene and characters more casual and relatable. The point was not to know what the Clone Wars were, but to enhance the "lived in" concept. It's like a grandfather mentioning fighting in the World War II to his grandson.
    Last edited by Alexrd, Aug 25, 2013
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  3. Mr. K Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    Oh...where do I start? So many lost opportunities. I wish they had utilized Owen Lars in a different way than they did. One thing I liked about Han Solo is that he was an outsider thrown into this extraordinary situation, but he was one character that we could relate to. I had imagined Owen Lars serving the same purpose in the PT. The ROTJ novelization claimed Obi-Wan and Owen were brothers. That could have been a very interesting dynamic and would have lead to reasons why Owen is so hellbent on the Kenobi bashing in ANH. It also would have benefitted moments when Kenobi seemed to empathize with Luke over Owen's rationalizations about leaving home and "getting involved".

    I didn't factor a character like Qui-Gon in my assumptions of the PT. Kenobi tells Luke that Yoda trained him, but here we have Qui-Gon. Obi-Wan tells Luke he discovered Anakin, took it upon himself to train him, and fouled it up. Only the latter actually happening in the PT: Qui-Gon discovers 'Ani', takes it upon himself to train him, and only defers that duty to Obi-Wan at the moment of death. I also thought that Anakin was already a hotshot pilot by the time he was discovered. I didn't think it would be a podracing 9 year old slave. I pictured a brash, dashing young guy about Luke's age tearing up space in a starfighter.

    The Clone Wars.... I had thought, for whatever reason I guess, that the Jedi would be fighting clones. I suppose in the end that does happen, but only after Order 66 and that closed out the war. I had figured Palpatine would use the emergency of the Clone Wars to consolidate power and declare himself Emperor. Because of Princess Leia's message to "General" Kenobi, I had assumed Bail Organa would have a much more active role in the goings-on of the war. She says Kenobi served her father in the wars, but I didn't see that kind of relationship at all except by proxy given to the Senate, not Organa himself.

    Anakin.... I thought he would have been nearly ten years older than little Ani was in TPM. I had read somewhere years ago that Anakin would be a Jedi that would be responsible for murdering Jedi under stealth. It would have been a whodunnit situation. Jedi are being killed left and right, but who's doing it? Surprise- it's Anakin. Fight over a lava pit and down he goes. Burn. Suit. Vader. I am so glad the lava thing turned out to be so, but I expected it to be a middle act event, like the devastating end of ESB where everything seems lost.

    I really expected the Clone Wars to encompass Ep 1. The events that happened in ROTS to be Ep. 2. Ep. 3 would have been about hiding the twins, escape, and evading Imperial Forces and a suited Darth Vader. I guess my idea would have eliminated TPM entirely and gone right into the meat of the PT and built up more of an urgentness in keeping the twins safe and the exile of Kenobi & Yoda. By Ep. 3, I expected Stardestroyers, TIE Fighters, the whole deal- even the building momentum of the Rebel Alliance (some scenes of which were filmed, but dropped). Oh, and because of what Leia tells Luke about remembering her mother, I assumed "Lady Skywalker" would not die onscreen but would perhaps be dying. She would be an active part of the hiding and exile of her twins with Kenobi, Yoda, Lars, and Organa.

    Anyhoo...that was my 'idea' version. Imagine my disappointment when TPM was released. I've come to appreciate it in retrospect, but at the time, it was a huge letdown.
    Last edited by Mr. K, Aug 25, 2013
  4. WriterMan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 1
    Well when Kenobi mentioned the "Clone Wars" I assumed he meant that the Jedi were fighting clones. I imagined it as something we'd have seen out of a 50's B-movie yet as a full out war. Honestly that would've been cool, but the concept they decided to go with I think plays better. The concept.
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  5. Mr. K Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    I focused so much on what disappointed. To be fair, I should point out what assumptions I had that proved to be very cool...
    • Senator Palpatine's rise to power
    • The Kenobi/Skywalker duel
    • Ani in the lava!
    • Emperor finds fried Ani and restores him to suit Vader!
    • Yoda is all sorts of awesome warrior.
    • Anakin gets suspicious of his wife and tries to kill her
    • Anakin loses an arm. Like father, like son.
    • Anakin and Obi-Wan's starfighter chase at the beginning of ROTS.
    • Tantive IV!!!
    • Imperial officers, stormtroopers, and stardestroyers. Well, we got it, albeit for one li'l moment at the end.
    • Death Star under construction
    • Rebel Fanfare during a space battle and Imperial March underscoring the rise of the Empire (big John Williams fan)
    • Yoda vs. Emperor. This was a scenario I did with my action figures when I was a kid in the 1980's- but never dreamed it would actually happen onscreen.
    • Palpatine declaring himself Emperor and the Old Republic an Empire
    • ALDERAAN!!!
    • I had a dream when I was a kid of watching a SW prequel and seeing Naboo. There really wasn't any planet like it in the OT and in my dream it was Alderaan, but I saw it nonetheless. Imagine my shock when it.came to be.
    • Lars Homestead
    Last edited by Mr. K, Aug 25, 2013
  6. Sarge Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 1998
    star 4
    I also assumed Jedi fought against clones in the Clone Wars.
  7. Aegon Starcaster Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2013
    star 2
    The very notion of Clone Wars sent shivers down my spine. I didn't expect the clones to be family friendly nice guys when their helmets were off. Though they were certainly tough guys, the clones didn't really scare me as much as I expected them too.
    I don't know why I was expecting to be scared during a Star Wars film. I think Palpatine sort of gave my goosebumps back then, looking, sounding, and acting the way he did, and I expected the clones to sort of have a similar affect on me.

    I expected Anakin would would start out as a fighter pilot during the Clone Wars, who was already being trained as a jedi. In Episode 2 he would defect to the Empire, and become Darth Vader, suit and all. In Episode 3 the Empire would win the Clone Wars. Imagine my surprise when the first 2 episodes were set during peace time :)
  8. darthfettus2015 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 3
    I really love this thread as by its nature goes a long way to explaining why the story was always going to be longer than the film released in 1977 and even than the trilogy completed in 1983. I think its very natural to think about what preceeded Ep4, what happened to Lukes mother? why does the barman in the Cantina hate droids? what were the Clone Wars? Why is the Empire so powerful? Why is Darth Vader in the scary suit? The nature of its used universe was like opening King Arthur and the Knights of the round table halfway through. (For me this book is the historical template for SW). Ive stated before that in my own mind I'd created something very much like Naboo palace right down to this shiny floors and the statues and a skirmish similar to the opening of ep4...yes, like most people id imagined Anakin slightly older at the beginning, but I had imagined Luke as a younger boy driving in some sort of high speed sport as it was known that GL was a big fan of drag racing.
  9. brianmays Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    I assumed, as some of you have, that the Clone Wars were fought over clones or because of clones, not by clones. In my mind clones would have been replacing key personnel, allowing the Empire to come to power through a subtle shift.

    I thought we would start out with Anakin as an adult Jedi, trained by Obi-Wan, sooner than we did. I expected to see much more of Vader's Jedi hunt than was shown. Specifically, much more of Vader getting his hands dirty.

    I also thought we'd see the Skywalker family as they grew up. We'd see a bit of Luke's Tatooine life, and Leia's Alderaan upbringing.

    And I really hoped to see some of Han Solo's history with Jabba the Hutt.
  10. JDN21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2004
    star 2
    Id have loved to have seen Vader, both pre-suit and suited hunting down Jedi over the course of eps 2 and 3. It would have served Vaders OT reputation brilliantly to see him take down accomplished Jedi Knights.

    Id imagined Episode 1 to start during the Clone Wars (which maybe would have been fought either about clone slavery, or against marauding evil clone armies that attempted to invade the galaxy). Anakin would have been early 20s, a charismatic, swashbuckling warrior. His origins would have been explained by his return to free his slave Mother during Episode 1.

    Episode 2 would see him flirting with the dark side as he got more and more confident in his skills, and then sucked in to being a full blown Sith when Palpatine noticed this extreme talent and over confidence.

    Id imagined Sidious and Vader to be more like partners in the early days of Vaders Sith allegiance, rather than being a servant to Sidious. His extreme confidence and abilities wouldn't permit an over bearing boss. After Vaders reconstruction as a suited-up cripple, he would recognise his place as Sidious' number 2.

    I could go on for days. Its rubbish that I was dissapointed by the PT as it works so much better in my head!
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  11. brianmays Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    You know, before the PT it never would have occurred to me that there was ever an unsuited Vader. In my 6 and 9 year old imagination (when I first saw Ep V and VI) he became Darth Vader once he put on the suit.
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  12. darthfettus2015 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 3
    to be honest, not much time elapses between his being named Darth Vader and the suiting...maybe a few days??
  13. brianmays Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    True. It always felt to my younger self like the suit was as much a choice as a life supporting necessity. My younger self always envisioned suited Vader fighting Obi-Wan and falling into a volcano, his suit protecting him enough to live.
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  14. JDN21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2004
    star 2
    That's a good point. Vader appears to be at the top of his game when you first see him in A New Hope. It never occurred to me back then that he was a cripple in a life support machine. His armour protecting him from the lava is a good idea.

    I'd like to have seen both in the PT - an unsuited and suited Vader hunting down Jedi over at least 1.5 of the films. My idea of having Vaders identity unknown to Obi Wan and Yoda et al at first is actually best served by him donning his helmet (or at least a less all-encompassing version of it). He could have a face mask and some black armour during his fight with Obi Wan and then have it embellished with a full head gear, breathing apparatus, voice change and robotic limbs after surviving the lava pit.

    Oh, the potential!
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  15. vw_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2002
    star 4
    I expected there to be lots of dark Jedi. Not Sith, but just fallen Jedi or dark Force users. The way Obi Wan and Yoda talk about how seductive the dark side is, I just assumed there would be more evil jedi types.
  16. Darth Eddie Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2013
    star 3
    I never made any assumptions about what the PT or how the Clone Wars would be handled - it never eve crossed my mind to speculate, I just waited for them to come and to see what happens. All I knew beforehand was the Luke's dad would fall into a volcano at the end. Must say, I'm very happy we got what we got. The Clone Wars are now one of the most interesting periods in Star Wars history.
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  17. JediMasterKeno Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2000
    star 1
    Back then in 1997-2000 there was either Star Wars Galaxy or Star Wars Insider magazine in a smaller form comic book style. Clone Wars was supposed to be Mandalorian clones wearing Mandalorian armor vs a few Jedi which were of Obi Wan and Anakin Skywalker and whoever else
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  18. Darth Vader's Chest Plate Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2013
    star 1
    As the clones were from Jango it could be argued that they were "Mandalorian"!!

    As for clones fighting against Jedi, I always imagined that this ws the case. I thought that the "clones" were the fighting mechanic for the Empire which later were replaced by stormtroopers.

    I thought that Anakin would have been mid-teens and an aquaintance of Kenobi's, which he saw Jedi potential in and tried to train him.

    I expected a heavier involment from the "scum & villainy" featured in Mos Eisley (ANH), Bount Hunters (All 3 PT) and Jabba's Palace (RotJ).
  19. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    I never speculated on how the Jedi Order was like during the Republic, while watching the OT.

    In fact, I had no assumptions of the PT whatsoever, aside from knowing that it spelled Anakin's downfall and the end of the Jedi Order.
  20. Carbon1985 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2013
    star 3
    -Always envisioned a 'Sophie's Choice' type scene where Padme is forced to choose one of her children to take away in hiding once she finds out that Anakin survived. I always thought Kenobi/Yoda came to her after the twins birth and told her that she could not take both children because it would be easier to detect them with force. She would then give up Luke as she is crying hysterically holding Leia as Obiwan takes him Tatooine. She then would die a few short years later and her friend Bail Organa would adopt Leia as her child.

    -Always envisioned that Kenobi would find Anakin, and sense his power with the force, and befriend him to become a jedi and help fight in this conflict called 'The Clone Wars.' Owen would be against this and tell Anakin he was crazy to fight in this galactic war and should stay with him on the farm always creating animosity towards Obiwan.
    -I will say the one thing that Lucas hit a homerun with in the PT was the arc of The Emperor. I love that he was a simple politican who rose to power the same way Hitler did and then he became a dictator. I always wondered if Lucas
  21. ezekiel22x Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    I didn't think I'd be seeing the seeds of Anakin's fall as early as the first film in the form of a dangerous stagnation afflicting the Jedi and the Republic. I figured Lucas would again stick to the idea of complete non-ambiguity while portraying the "good" side of the narrative, and thus I expected Anakin's fall to be more of an absolute good guy going dark for generic reasons of power hunger than the character being a lifelong victim of circumstance. Luckily Lucas did his own thing, as I quite prefer his version to the PT narrative I expected after years of seeing Star Wars only through the OT lens.
  22. JDN21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2004
    star 2
    I think Lucas played Anakins fall to the dark side too safe. Its obvious to me that Anakin should have some kind of personality disorder, a psychological problem from growing up as a slave. In the PT, Anakin was just immature, but basically a well meaning guy. His descent from that to being a mass murderer just doesn't work for me. He should have been more obviously flawed rather than just being a risk because he was 'too old to start Jedi training'.
  23. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    I'm glad that Lucas did not choose that path. His portrayal of Anakin and most of the other characters merely verified what I have always believed - that anyone is capable of anything, if the right situation pops up and the right emotional buttons are pushed. I believe that humans, like other beings, are very ambiguous - even if many of us refuse to admit it.
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  24. Mr. K Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    I wish I could do the same. The PT, for all it's flaws, is still a good adventure yarn and the stories do flow well. I have a lot of worry that I've over-thought the ST as much, if not MORE than the PT. I really hope I'm not setting myself up for disappointment again. But....that's another thread.
    Last edited by Mr. K, Aug 27, 2013
  25. vinsanity Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2013
    star 3
    I always thought the Empire was the ruler of the galaxy for much longer that just 19 years before the events of ANH
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