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CT What ideas did you have about the PT era when watching the OT?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by JDN21, Aug 25, 2013.

  1. Count Yubnub

    Count Yubnub Jedi Knight star 4

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    Oct 1, 2012
    The original ESB novel said that Boba Fett wore the armor of "a group of evil warriors defeated by the Jedi Knights during the Clone Wars." They weren't called Mandalorians at the time. But I remember thinking it would be about Jedi knights fighting against Mandalorian clones.

    I like the fact that we got the opposite--Jedi knights fighting alongside Mandalorian clones, only to then be defeated and killed by them. It's subversive, in a way.
     
  2. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Yup. That said, TCW has had Mandalorians fighting Jedi and losing- so the ESB novel quote is still valid.
     
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  3. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jan 6, 2004
    I envisaged the Jedi Order pretty much as they were portrayed in the PT in terms of structure and alignment with the Republic government. I didn't see them as quite so flawed though. In my mind their demise was less of their own making.

    I saw Anakin as essentially a good man for whom temptation ultimately became too great. I wanted to like him and sympathise with him in his fall. I did neither in the end.

    I envisaged the Clone Wars as a legitimate war, rather than a facade created by the Sith in order that they should rise to power in the galaxy.
     
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  4. JediMasterKeno

    JediMasterKeno Jedi Master star 1

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    Apr 22, 2000
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    Oct 1, 2012
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    The original ESB novel said that Boba Fett wore the armor of "a group of evil warriors defeated by the Jedi Knights during the Clone Wars." They weren't called Mandalorians at the time. But I remember thinking it would be about Jedi knights fighting against Mandalorian clones.

    I like the fact that we got the opposite--Jedi knights fighting alongside Mandalorian clones, only to then be defeated and killed by them. It's subversive, in a way.​

     
  5. JediMasterKeno

    JediMasterKeno Jedi Master star 1

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    Apr 22, 2000
    Yes that is what I said the first time where i read in an old issue of Star Wars Galaxy/Insider way back in 1997-2002. This was before Jango was even mentioned yada yada.

    A few Jedi vs Mandalorian clones where the mandalorians wore armor resembling Boba Fett.
     
  6. Sur-Gon Jinn

    Sur-Gon Jinn Jedi Youngling

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    Aug 14, 2013
    1. That we'd actually have a reason to sympathize with Anakin and feel he actually redeemed himself by seeing how he went from a "good friend" of Obi-Wan's to a great pilot...etc. Like we're lead to believe in the OT. Instead we get (and no I dont' blame Hayden) a spoiled whiny genocidal child-killing brat that in no way deserves sympathy much less can be redeemed after slaughtering not only sand-people but innocent children in the Jedi Temple.

    2. Obi-Wan actually a general under Bail Organa..like..y'know....the OT tells us.

    3. The "Clone Wars" actually being something we care about...when one side is nothing but stupid mindless robots...it's lame. And....as others have said....it being called "The Clone Wars" is stupid because only one side use clones..but that's all I'll say as others have already said it all about it. Shoulda been a clone uprising (since they were slaves afterall) or something that would make calling it "the clone wars" make..y'know...sense.
     
  7. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Bail Organa having a role in the PT more so than he did. Not just a cameo in AOTC and then cranking it up for ROTS.
     
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  8. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 25, 2008


    I never understood this belief that Padme had chosen one of the twins to raise in the first place in ROTJ. That did not make sense to me. I guess it didn't make sense to Lucas, either. Which would explain why he allowed Padme to die right after giving birth to Luke and Leia. I could see Padme raising them on her won somewhere in the far reaches of the galaxy before her death, or dying after giving birth.
     
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  9. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The Force would be used more prominently in the Lightsaber duels. Like in the Luke vs. Darth Vader duel in ESB.
     
  10. Carbon1985

    Carbon1985 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 23, 2013
     
  11. Carbon1985

    Carbon1985 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 23, 2013



    Here is from the Annotated Screenplay taken from Lucas's notes in 1983: (page 270)

    "Luke and Leia were twins and they were separated; Luke was sent to stay with Obiwan's Brother, Owen on Tatooine, while his sister and mother were sent to the protection of friends in a distant system. The mother died shortly thereafter, and Lukes sister was adopted by Ben Friend, the Governor of Alderran and his wife."


    Now the reason I say there could have been a 'Sophie's Choice' moment in Episode III was because Padme would not just let them take one of her kids to live their life with another set of parents. But Yoda/Obiwan would coax her that with both kids being force sensitive, it would be easier for The Emperor and Vader to sense them and they would be in danger.
     
  12. SlashMan

    SlashMan Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 5, 2012
    For me, the fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin was the biggest one, by far. The dialogue between the two in A New Hope was very interesting, and let the imagination wonder what had happened so long ago to make these two become bitter enemies? I also had the assumption that Vader's injuries were from Obi-Wan, but it was only when I read the Star Wars Visual Dictionary from the school library that it mentioned a volcanic planet being responsible. Immediately, I had that epic duel playing out in my head. Sure enough, it translated pretty well to Revenge of the Sith (although I originally though Anakin would fall in a volcano).
     
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  13. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 7, 2012
    The biggest thing I imagined about the PT that didn't come to pass is that they would be good movies.
     
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  14. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn

    Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 23, 1999
    Expectations or hopes:
    -EU ships from 'the old days': Dreadnaughts, Victory Star Destroyers, Z-95s.
    -The Jedi in general as very similar to the depictions in the OT, just... there would be more of them, and they'd be more accepted.
    -Alderaan would be a main planet. Perhaps it would have a military presence in the Clone Wars and be damaged, making its status in ANH a development from my imagined PT.
    -The Mandalorians would appear in some way. I thought we might see legions of supercommandos in 'clean' (plain white) versions of Boba Fett's armor, fighting against the Jedi in some capacity.
    -We might or might not see Yoda. He might just get talked up, making his reveal in ESB even more counterintuitive. In the throne room in ROTJ, it kind of sounded to me like Vader and the Emperor don't even know about Yoda's existence ("Obi-Wan has taught you well.").

    But if we did see Yoda, or any other Masters of the Force (like the Emperor), they wouldn't use lightsabers. Their powers would access the Force directly, as with Yoda's mastery of telekinesis, the Emperor's lightning, etc. Kind of like a fight between wizards in one of the Harry Potter movies (I don't know which one; I only saw a little of it). They'd be so much one with the Force's power that machinery would be beneath them. Yoda could probably win a lightsaber duel with his gimer stick.

    Also,here's a story idea I came up with a while ago. I'll probably end up using some of it for my own storytelling purposes.

    I: Anakin starts on his homeworld of Tatooine with his brother Owen and Owen's girlfriend Beru. Ben the Jedi (also a general in the Alderaanian military - perhaps an Alderaan native) suddenly arrives (perhaps crash-landing?) and meets them (maybe for the first time, or perhaps he has returned, or makes "rounds" to recruit). During a short stay on Tatooine, he recruits Anakin into the (already-ongoing) Clone Wars by appealing to Anakin's idealism and sense of justice. The end of the movie might be the last battle of the Clone Wars, perhaps taking place over, on, or in some other way involved with Alderaan.

    II: Perhaps there are 'security' operations going on post-CW (as the galaxy had been pretty well demolished by the wars). Anakin, as a Jedi Knight, works with Ben (and perhaps other Jedi) and sees the widespread devastation, perhaps through experiencing individuals' stories. Anakin begins to draw the conclusion that what the galaxy really needs is order. Maybe friends of his are or were killed, populations destroyed, worlds burned, and he - and the rest of the Jedi - aren't or weren't strong enough to protect everyone. In the distant core of the galaxy, Palpatine begins to rally supporters to set up a new political system (contrasting it with the 'weak' Republic). Anakin might leave Ben (and their group of Jedi?) at the end of the movie, going to the Core systems to investigate this new rising Empire.

    Perhaps Anakin's leaving in search of "strength" might also have to do with an event regarding his wife's apparent death (after he leaves she's discovered to be alive), or maybe he just drives her away with his increasing militancy?

    III: Anakin has become an enforcer (perhaps the enforcer) for the New Order. Ben, having drawn the opposite conclusion from the events of the Clone Wars (Ben - "wars not make one great" to Anakin's "bring order to the galaxy" by any means necessary) would search Anakin out. They might find each other relatively early in the movie, clash intellectually throughout, Anakin losing respect for Ben and the Jedi even more (for their 'weakness') and then the movie would end with the volcano duel. At some point Anakin would end up in a position where he would need Ben's help to avoid falling into lava or onto hot rubble. He chooses not to accept Ben's offers of assistance (he can't think of himself as vulnerable). If there's a "fall" scene in this version, it's this one. A physical fall as well as a metaphorical one.

    Now, circa 1979-1981, Luke was supposed to be a young child by the time of Episode III. About three years old. So he and Leia would be born after Anakin takes off at the end of my Episode II, or perhaps their mother is still pregnant at the end of that episode and they are born between episodes. Perhaps part of what Obi-Wan has to wrestle with as he tries to get Anakin back is whether to inform him about his children. He might start off wanting to use that as a tool - like, come back, for the sake of your kids (that you don't yet know about) - but when he sees how militant and close to the Empire/Emperor Anakin has become, this line of argument may become impossible for him.
     
  15. CT1138

    CT1138 Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2013
    I had thought that Luke and Leia were from separate pregnancies.
     
  16. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 25, 2008

    I'm sorry, but I'm glad that Lucas changed the situation in the PT. I cannot see Padme choosing to raise one twin over another. The situation simply was not dire enough for her to be forced into choosing one of her children to raise. Either she would have taken both of them to be raised far away or die after giving birth. Lucas chose one of those scenarios - the latter.

    By the way, I doubt that the Emperor and Vader would have sensed that Luke and Leia were both Force sensitive by them simply being together. Vader had spotted both of them - together - on the Death Star in ANH and he failed to sense that both were strong with the Force. He didn't even know that Luke was strong with the Force, until the former displayed his potential during the Battle of Yavin.



    In that regard, I disagree with you. I didn't know whether the PT would be good or not. To my satisfaction, they were.
     
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  17. Carbon1985

    Carbon1985 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 23, 2013
    Your theory would make sense if Lucas had written that Luke & Leia were Vader's kids in 1977, but nobody was related in The Original Star Wars, so it makes total sense the way the movie played out. It would have played out much differently if they were written as his siblings, as you saw Vader sense them in ESB and ROTJ. ;)
     
  18. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Sep 3, 2012

    They are good movies
     
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  19. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 7, 2012
    Oh yeah, they're great pieces of cinema. Just ask any obsessed Star Wars nerd.

    Mesa thinkin dey be totally wizard!
     
  20. Ord-Mantell70

    Ord-Mantell70 Jedi Master star 3

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    Mar 9, 2009
    So did I.

    Thought that Palpatine would somehow use the war to rise to power, not scheming the whole thing. Making him the great puppet-master, who contemplates the war and the destruction of the Jedi order from the beginning, really undermines Anakin's turn in the end, at least his decision to side with him. Even if he has a true self motive. Rather unbelievable. To me that's the main flaw regarding Anakin's turn in the PT.

    - Didn't think the style and design would be that different than in the OT (although Lucas warned about this several times...).
    - Didn't expect any Sith order, arch-foe of the Jedi, as it's never mentioned in the OT.
    - Basically envisioned the Jedi order the way it turned out to be in the PT, except that it would be less centralized and less hierarchical.
    - Expected Anakin to be roughly the same age as Luke in Episode I.
    - That Obi-Wan would really find him and decide to train him (no Qui Gon), that Mother Skywalker would die off-screen, or at least some time after fleeing to Alderaan with Leia etc...Most of what's
    stated in the OT or OT novels (except Owen being Obi-Wan's brother...Never bought this one).
    - Expected a real close friendship and affection between Anakin and Obi-wan, unless what's shown on-screen (master-student).
    - Didn't expect or envisioned something clear regarding the mysterious Clone Wars. Only it would involve clones...Although it seemed really weird. :D
     
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  21. Darth_Laudrup

    Darth_Laudrup Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 7, 2004
    I always thought that the Jedi were all hermits like Kenobi and Yoda. Spread throughout the galaxy, each keeping the peace in their respective area.
     
  22. Sur-Gon Jinn

    Sur-Gon Jinn Jedi Youngling

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    Aug 14, 2013

    Yah it's pretty stupid. Once Anakin found out Palpatine WAS Sidious..and behind the war to begin with....meaning he was in charge of Dooku..meaning he was in on the attempts on Padme's life....him siding with him makes no sense regardless of any other reasons behind it.
     
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  23. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    And his apprentice killed Qui-Gon.
     
  24. Beezer

    Beezer Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 5, 2013
    I agree with this. I think Episode IV implies there is a stronger relationship between Owen and Anakin, and they had a falling out of sorts.

    Heck, as a kid, I always wondered how Luke was related to Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru... Like, for example, was Owen the brother of Luke's father or Luke's mother? Or was it Beru who was the sister of Luke's father or his mother? FWIW, I also always wondered the same thing about Peter Parker's Uncle Ben and Aunt May :)
     
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  25. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    I hate to reign on your parade but in ANH Obi-Wan tells Luke about how Vader and the Emperor hunted down and destroyed the Jedi Knights.
    And Obi-Wan DID decide to train him.
    And in both AOTC and especially ROTS you see the love Obi-Wan and Anakin have for each other.
     
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