CT What ideas did you have about the PT era when watching the OT?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by JDN21, Aug 25, 2013.

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  1. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

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    I wanted that too, but not stopping at Bail. I really really was looking forward to Alderaan getting some serious screen time. In fact, they should have had Alderaan instead of Naboo. If we could make an emotional connection to that location, it would heighten the impact of viewing its destruction.
  2. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

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    I disagree. They spend most of those 2 movies bickering, and Anakin spends his time pretty much from the beginning of E2 whining about Obi-Wan. The only time we really see them fighting side by side together as partners is the beginning of E3, but we never get the feeling that they had a true, deep friendship.

    The characters in the original trilogy love each other, and this is apparent to the audience by how they behave, not because someone talks about that time he fell into that nest of gundarks. Even Episode 4 Obi-Wan shows more true emotion (and regret) when discussing Anakin than anything we see in the entire PT.
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  3. Force Smuggler Chosen One

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    Agreed but you'll get people complaining of the galaxy is too small yada yada yada. Alderaan would have been fun to see.
  4. Loupgarou Jedi Grand Master

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    This isn't exactly the thread's question, but i remember getting the Lego set of the Naboo Starfighter before the movie came out (I was 9 or so), and thought that the Battle Droid heads went on backwards. The pieces had a line on what was really the back of the head, and i thought that was a scanner like eye. I didn't know otherwise till i actually watched the movie. In retrospect, i wonder how i managed to not see the cover of the lego set, which must have shown them correctly. Maybe as a kid, i just intentionally forgot that because i preffered the other way.
  5. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

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    There's a scene where Anakin rushed across the galaxy to save Obi-Wan, even though the Council orders him not to. There is another scene where Anakin tries to escape a burning ship carrying Obi-Wan on his shoulders. What's true love to you?
  6. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

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    But that would just bring attention to the fact that everyone in the OT treats it's destruction like an everyday thing. Leia is cracking wise throughout the film an comforts Luke when the old man he knew for a day kills himself rather than pray for the souls of Alderaan.
  7. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

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    Wrong
  8. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

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    I'm one of those who sometimes complains about a too-small galaxy, but I don't think this would qualify, because the OT tells us right off that "years ago [Ben] served [Bail Organa of Alderaan] in the Clone Wars." If you're going to show the Clone Wars, then it seems like it's being set up that Alderaan will be a player. There are ways to get around this and still have things make marginal sense (like how the PT actually dealt with this) but expecting Alderaan wasn't a bad assumption, I think.
  9. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

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    Puh-leeze. He was a Skywalker stuck on Tatooine but wanted to be where the action was. It certainly isn't the first or the last time that would happen. And even then, he was still reluctant to go and it took some prodding from Padme.
    Yes, I admitted that the beginning of E3 is the one time we see them acting as true comrades would. So you've really added nothing here.
    True love is a guy who is returning to his smuggler lifestyle, but instead doubles back so he can save a friend at the last moment. True love is going out into a blizzard when it is 100 degrees below zero to find your friend and spend the night outdoors to save his life. True love is the scene in the Carbonite Freezing Chamber, and the anguish seen on the characters' faces. True love is a group of people risking their lives to infiltrate a criminal organization so they can save their friend.

    I like the PT. I really do. But I am not going to pretend that it has any of these moments. Instead what we see is an exasperated mentor and petulant child.
    Last edited by Beezer, Sep 13, 2013
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  10. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

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    Double post - I apologize.
    Last edited by Beezer, Sep 13, 2013
  11. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

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    So Han saves Luke's life twice in the OT. Anakin goes AGAINST direct orders from the JEDI COUNCIL AND risks his AND Padme's lives to save Obi-Wan, that's true love. Then in ROTS he risks the success of their very mission in order to save him when the Supreme Chancellor (the politically most powerful man in the galaxy) orders him not to. That's true love. Han certainly loved Luke but he never went against conduct like Anakin did to save him.
  12. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

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    Where are the parts in the OT where Han whines about Luke, or vice-versa? (not including the parts where they first meet and their friendship isn't established) Where are the parts in the OT where Luke talks about how angry he is at Yoda or Obi-Wan? Where's the dialog where Han talks about how angry he is with Chewbacca? Look at E5.... Han has been tortured and he is imprisoned, but what really really sets him off against Lando is when he finds out that the whole thing is a trap set up to get Luke. That scene alone has 100 times the impact of Anakin's "uh, gee, what should we do Padme?" reaction on Tatooine when he finds out Obi-Wan is in trouble.

    Your example from E2 is extremely weak. So Anakin went against the Council. Whoop-de-doo. You keep falling back on E3, but as I stated in my original post the beginning of E3 is the one and only time in the whole PT where we can see them behaving in a true manner of friendship. So yes, I certainly agree the example from E3 is a good one, which is why I included it in my first post on this matter before you even replied.
    Excuse me, but he most certainly did. When we first met him, Han wasn't a part of any military or the Jedi Order, but he had a debt he had to pay. He was under orders to pay back Jabba the Hutt - and the penalty he would suffer for breaking those orders was far greater than anything the Jedi Council or someone whom everyone believed was just a politician would do to Anakin. He was on his way to pay back Jabba the Hutt, thereby saving his own skin, when he doubled back to save Luke (then eventually received a commission in the Alliance).

    When we first met him, Han was a smuggler and a criminal. He changed his entire lifestyle because of the affection and friendship he developed with Luke and Leia. There' just nothing like that in the OT between Anakin and Obi-Wan. Pretty much from the beginning of E2 all the way to Anakin's conversion to the Dark Side, they spend too much time complaining about each other behind the other's back.
    Last edited by Beezer, Sep 13, 2013
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  13. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

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    Saving Luke had nothing to do with Han paying back his debt. How long did it take him to save Luke...30 seconds? That scene was about him standing up for the cause of good rather than not sticking his neck out. True risk he took if anything was going against the Imperials.

    Also if you re-watch the OT there is a scene in ROTJ when Han tells Chewie Luke is having delusions of grandeur because he claims to be a Jedi Knight, and he doubts Luke every step of the way during the scenes in Jabba's Palace right up to the point when he tells him "You're gonna die here ya know?"
    THEN Luke is also pretty peeved when he confronts Obi-Wan about lying to him for the last 4 years. so...

    And in the SW universe, yes going against the Jedi Council is a pretty big deal, as we are told in the films, Qui-Gon was not allowed on the Council because he went against them. So for a padawan who they ALREADY have doubts about to go against their direct orders, is yes, a big deal. It is the equivalent of a rookie cop going against orders from the Chief of Police to save his buddy, not a smuggler with no responsibilities taking 30 seconds to help his bud and then be free to do whatever he wants.
  14. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

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    Ohhhhhh.... Anakin might not be granted a seat on the Jedi Council, a group he really has little respect for in the first place.

    Yeah, I can see how that's comparable to having the most vile gangster in the galaxy putting a price on your head, dead or alive. :rolleyes:
    Last edited by Beezer, Sep 13, 2013
  15. jacktherack Force Ghost

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    Mar 19, 2008
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    before episode 3 came out, i was always under the impression that Anikin had to wear the suit because of a vehicle crash, i knew that he had turned to the dark side but i don't think it was known that it was because he got into a duel with obi-wan.
  16. Force Smuggler Chosen One

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    I have an OT Scrapbook/guide thingie from the 90's and it mentions injuries from a volcano.
  17. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

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    He's a padawan, I highly doubt he was up for a seat on the Council lol

    And yeah the Jedi Council is a lot more important than a Hutt.
  18. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

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    Then why did you bring it up? You said "going against the Jedi Council is a pretty big deal, as we are told in the films, Qui-Gon was not allowed on the Council because he went against them."

    You brought up that analogy, my friend, not me. I thought it was a pretty silly and irrelevant comparison and now it seems you've come around to agree with me.
    Of course it is, but I am talking about the consequences of disobeying. Which do you think presents more severe consequences and poses a more severe risk to life and limb? Going against the wishes of the Jedi Council, or getting the most vile gangster in the galaxy pretty peeved at you?

    Han was risking far more by blowing off Jabba than Anakin was risking by going against the wishes of the Council. Tell us, how exactly was he punished by the Council for disobeying them and going to Geonosis against their wishes? Oh that's right. He wasn't punished in the slightest.
    Last edited by Beezer, Sep 13, 2013
  19. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

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    Disobeying the Council had nothing to do with the danger, he snuck into the base of an enemy government...

    Again, Han saving Luke had nothing to do with his debt to Jabba. After the 20 or so seconds he spent to help Luke he could have gone back to Tatooine to pay back Jabba. In TESB we find out he didn't.

    He wasn't punished? He risked life and limb to save his master, survived the slaughter of dozens of his comrades, got hit with Force lightning and oh yeah, got his arm severed at the forearm. I think he learned his lesson. I doubt the Council was sitting around debating about how they should punish him before getting back to how to prepare for war.
  20. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

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    I'm not saying he didn't risk his life, but you're the one who was making such a big deal about him disobeying the Council. You've mentioned it 6 times. You even put it in ALL CAPS. You do remember that post, don't you?
    Exactly. He stayed with his new friends even though, by doing so, he incurred the wrath of the Hutt.
    No, he wasn't There were absolutely no repercussions to Anakin from the Jedi Council, despite the fact that you're making such a huge deal about it in this thread.

    You brought up the whole "Anakin disobeyed the Jedi Council" comment, as if it somehow supported your point, which it didn't. Flying off to Geonosis doesn't show any sort of tremendous love or affection for Obi-Wan. Kit Fisto was at that battle. So was Plo Koon. So was Coleman Trebor. Do they all love Anakin too?
    Last edited by Beezer, Sep 13, 2013
  21. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

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    Apr 21, 2013
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    I watched the PT first, so who knows what I would have speculated.

    In the beginning, I might have been lead to the conclusion that R2 was actually malfunctioning and could only play the message for Obi-wan. After the prequels, it was very clear R2 was being complete little droid liar and desperate to cover up Luke's relationship to Leia. R2's panicked reaction during that entire scene, especially when threepio claimed their old owner was captain Antilles makes more sense. Also, the scene where Obi-wan gives Luke Anakin's lightsaber is much harsher in hindsight, as well as Obi-wan's lies. Owen claiming Obi-wan died when Anakin did, was also uncalled for.

    Thanks to PT retcons, the first half of ANH is almost painful to watch.

    There are also lines about the force which definitely don't imply there was a recent Jedi genocide. Like Han's disbelief in the force, Motti calling it an "Ancient religion" and Tarkin saying they are "extinct"
    Last edited by VanishingReality, Sep 13, 2013
  22. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

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    Kit Fisto was there on orders and went with and army of Jedi. Anakin went with a female Senator and a gay droid. Takes a but more balls, and yes does show he loves Obi-Wan. Han was just...stupid. Why would he not go back to pay his debt before joining his friends? He's already saved Luke remember?
  23. Beezer Jedi Grand Master

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    Sorry, but I'm just not buying this. Anakin's initial reaction was to obey orders and stay on Tatooine. It was Padme that led him to go since he was essentially following her around like a little puppy dog. It was his love for her that got him to Geonosis moreso than any affection he felt for Obi-Wan
    Yeah, that's one of those "between movie" things from both the PT and OT that just doesn't make sense. 3 years passed between E4 and E5, why didn't Han ever pay back Jabba? 10 years passed between E1 and E2, why didn't anybody do anything to save Shmi?
  24. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

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    Don't try to defend your position with nothing that has to do with the conversation. We were speaking about the friendship between Han and Luke. Shmi has nothing to do with it. The ultimate answer is that Han did not risk anything to do with his debt to Jabba by saving Luke at the Death Star trench. If anything the risk was being in a space battle.
  25. darthfettus2015 Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 15, 2012
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    well they are nearly extinct, Yoda in hiding (maybe they believe he is dead), Anakin (a sith Lord), Obi Wan (who Tarkin does not believe is alive) and an untrained Luke. It may have only been 20 years since the ancient religion had been put to the sword but with two decades of Imperial rule (just imagine Nazi rule) it would seem like the days before those times were indeed ancient.. I actually like Episode 4 much more, after the PT, now than I did when it was just 'Star Wars' it just seems to mean even more to me now. Thanks to the amazing performances of Ewan and Alec the saga hangs together. I do believe Obi Wan and R2 could be in cohorts (obviously revisonally) to not startle Luke out of being the new chosen one. I think the first part of ANH really stands up well, from when Obi hears his jedi name once more, to the lies covering the fact that it was infact Obi Wan who killed Anakin, not Vader. The scene in Obi Wans house may infact be my favourite of the saga, because of the PT. When watching the scene in 1977 we did not know what the 'dark times' entailed or what personal pain and conflict Obi Wan had suffered, it was just cowboys and indians and knights in shining armour in space! I think for me, its almost uncanny how well it fits together, yes Obi Wan lied, he was not going to tell Luke it was him who in effect killed his father when he wants him to defeat the Emperor
    Last edited by darthfettus2015, Sep 14, 2013
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