Lit What if JJM wrote a book where the Lost Tribe founded the Imperial Knights?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Sinrebirth, Oct 24, 2012.

  1. JohnJacksonMiller Mastermind: KOTOR, LTotS, Knight Errant

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    I guess it's this, or my original plan of having them return to Kesh to start a resort with the Harlem Globetrotters.
  2. Robimus Force Ghost

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    Sinre must not like the Imperial Knights much I guess.....:p
    Last edited by Robimus, Oct 24, 2012
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  3. Havac Former Moderator

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    What if Derek J. Reda wrote a book where Bib Fortuna founded the Imperial Knights?
  4. RC-1991 Force Ghost

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    He already did. Didn't you read chapter 22, page 389 of Rise of the Dark Falls?
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  5. Esg Jedi Grand Master

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    >Implying Felpire couldn't be worse off
  6. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    Well, it's this or the Jedi have an honest schism via Jaina or Tahiri, which won't be pleasant on the Solo Clan.
  7. Reveen Jedi Grand Master

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    Nah. The Lost Tribe can't carry out even the simplest mission without getting eachother killed via backstabbing, stupid selfishness, or out and out friendly fire. What qualifies them to help defend an Empire?

    Feh. I for one couldn't care less about what's pleasant for Han and Leia at this point.

    I think Jaina, Jag, and Tahiri striking out on their own to setup a Jedi chapter in the Empire is a wonderful idea. Far, far, FAR away from the other SkySolos. Bring Lando too, he's just about the only one of the big five that hasn't been sucked dry yet IMO.
    Last edited by Landostrip, Oct 25, 2012
  8. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

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    Nah. The Lost Tribe can't carry out even the simplest mission without getting eachother killed via backstabbing, stupid selfishness, or out and out friendly fire. What qualifies them to help defend an Empire?

    I agree, the Lost Tribe is like the Sith watered down with the cast of your average daytime soap. "We're so pretty but EVILLLL! Watch us sneer at the ugly people!"
  9. Ulicus Lit'ari

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    I don't see why. It'd be pretty easy for the Imperial Knights to organically emerge from a standard Jedi bodyguard assigned to Jag/subsequent Emperors over several decades.

    Jag starts out flanked by orthodox dudes in robes, referred to as "Imperial Knights" colloquially... and Roan ends up flanked by the guys we see in Legacy.

    Incremental change would be infinitely preferable, I think. Or an incremental schism, I suppose you could say.
    Last edited by Ulicus, Oct 25, 2012
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  10. Zorrixor Chosen One

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    Subtlety and Star Wars... oh, you funny, Uli, you funny. :p
  11. Havac Former Moderator

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    Yeah, there's no reason Jaina and a few Knights can't go to work in the Empire, helping Jag, and over time get integrated into the structure, and then Prince Fel is on the Jedi Council forty years later and there's a conflict of interest and they decide maybe there should be a formal separation.
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  12. AusStig Jedi Grand Master

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    That works too.
  13. RC-1991 Force Ghost

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    Seeing as the Imperial Knights come off as a bit more... action-oriented? Pro-active? I'm struggling to find the word here. Basically I could see some of the same Jedi who sided with Kyp early in the NJO- or at least those who share that mindset- splintering off and serving as the early Imperial Knights. Knights who want to take a more active/hard-line role in the galaxy, essentially. Over time this would morph into a full-on separate order.
  14. Ghost Chosen One

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    Also, there's long been a debate if the Jedi should serve the government or not. What if some decided they should serve a government, and it happens to be the Imperial government? The real name of the Imperial Knights is: "Knights of the Empire." And the Empire is more stable, arguably even more democratic with the election of Reige, than the GA right now.

    The Emperor is basically their Grand Master... who also happens to be Head of State and Head of Government. Jedi Grand Masters have ruled before, so it's not that big of a leap.

    A gradual evolution over the decades makes the most sense, the Imperial Knights are entirely based on the Jedi. They serve the Force, through their Emperor. It could start off with Jaina training Imperial kids to be Jedi at an academy on Bastion, Jag getting Jedi bodyguards, and evolve from there.

    Throwing the Lost Tribe in would make zero sense and just completely ruin a great idea. It works perfectly without them. There really aren't any Sith/dark-side influences on the Imperial Knights, and there shouldn't be.
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, Oct 25, 2012
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  15. TychoCorde Jedi Master

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    I agree with the no Sith/dark-side influence, but after say 90ish years or so wouldn't that influence fade out if the original Lost Tribe members were only apprentices or children that were "rescued" from Kesh? Maybe they did take them to fold in with the rest of the order and they didn't quite fit in, so Jaina and Tahiri and some other Jedi take them out of the equation there, that's how they end up in the Remnant and slowly this evolves into an academy there. After a time some other crazy Galaxy spanning threat erupts, Jag leading the Remnant to victory declares himself (or is declared by the people), and the "Jedi" in the Empire see that to serve Jag they need to separate themselves from the rest of the Order completely thus the Imperial Knights are born.
  16. TychoCorde Jedi Master

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    An after thought. Once the academy was established they could seek out force sensitives in the Remnant to fill out their ranks also. So eventually the Lost Tribe kids would be diluted with people with no prior influence.
  17. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

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    Do we have any idea (other than 'probably miniscule') of the ratio of Force-sensitive to Force-blind beings in the Galaxy? The ratio of Force-users to Force-sensitives is probably also pretty small, judging by the size of the Jedi Order in both the Old and New forms. The much smaller size of the Remnant/Empire as compared to the rest of the Galaxy has to be taken into account too.

    The humans from Kesh may be a special case, as it looks like all Omen's survivors were Force-users to start with, but even they didn't always have Force-sensitive (Force-using) children - as with Vestara's mother.

    Infants from Kesh (returning to the Old Order's intake policy) woudn't have any Dark-side baggage, IMHO.
  18. Sith93Apprentice Jedi Padawan

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    I haven't been keeping up.I've been busy with a new baby. How does Jag get back in control of the Empire? Is it possible he does so in answer to a Sith infiltration, with the aid of the girls and a collection of Lost Tribe ex-patriots? Is it possible there would be no schizm at all if Luke and co. give approval and aid to their insurrection? I know nothing about the comics. Can someone play puppet master with the whole affair? How do the One Sith figure into the creation of this? is the Lost Tribe really so incompetent they couldn't pull off either? I didn't get that at all. I got that they are inexperienced and arrogant but they obviously learn and adapt extremely quickly and in just 2 years went from a marooned civilization to a spacefaring one using the same technology and making a play for the galactic seat of power. That should say more about their capabilities than a few fight scenes and dialogue.
  19. LarryG Jedi Master

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    I wonder if force sensitive infants taken away against the will of force sensitive Sith parents would have some sort of baggage. Could dark-side imprinting take place even before birth? This is why the fate of the Lost Tribe can be so interesting, because the SW universe (of what I have read) has not dealt with an entire Sith society that includes children and the emotional war within as they are merged with the general galactic society (Republic or Imperial).

    I do remember a comic short story of Mace Windu and an apprentice meeting a sith society with children on a dying planet.
  20. Parnesius Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 8, 2012
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    A notion has occured to me, so I thought I'd pop it in your navcomputers and see if we hit Rathalay or Raxus Prime.

    It is assumed that the formation of the Imperial Knights was a momentous and quite unique event in Jedi history. But, it could merely be one of several similar, contemporaneous episodes. So, what if multiple galactic powers post-44 ABY established their own 'Jedi' organisations?

    The various origins of the Imperial Knights suggested previously - philosophical schisms, political breakaways, local Jedi chapters gradually going native (my preferred scenario), or governments raising their own Jedi alternatives, either drawn from pre-existing groups or created from whole cloth - are all workable with other factions.

    Besides the more obvious (and very tentatively titled) candidates - the Knights of the Confederation, likely drawing on the Green Jedi; the Knights of the Alliance, as the ultimate outcome of that still-not-really-settled debate; and the Knights of Hapes, perhaps revolving around Allana - we could potentially see more unusual Orders tailored to the Ascendency, the Corporate Sector and the Hutts.

    Anyway, with regard to this thread, the Imperial Knights might not be the only Jedi group answering to a foreign government, and their establishment might not be as huge and largely unprecedented as it initially appears. Possibly they should and it shall, but really there's plenty of room.

    Well, there it is.
  21. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

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    The big issue I see is Jaina is a pretty poor founder of the Imperial Knights. She's the last Solo child and that's just like spitting on their grave.

    "Anakin's dead, Jacen went Sith, and Jaina works for the Imperials."

    Oiye.
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  22. Sith93Apprentice Jedi Padawan

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    Now, I have to frame this very carefully. I have several friends who are all soldiers or were and I have others who are helping soldiers reintegrate back into society. So, I don't want to present this as soldiers are on the wrong side of morality...I think for any dark sider especially a society, the personal struggles of reintegration would be enormous. Many are very successful at this and it depends on what their experiences were, but we are all changed irrevocably by experience so they would need to grieve the life that they had before and accept that they have grown and their new experience adds to the former, which gives them a unique perspective. I think it would be easier for kids to recover from this and what they really need is structure and security, good mentoring and love. There are kids where I go for riding lessons and some of those are victims of domestic violence. Outwardly they seem like other kids, but they have behavioral and emotional struggles they need help overcoming. The right way to do that is not what Luke did with Vess BTW but that's a side issue. I think it is believable that kids coming from a dark sider culture could totally integrate and probably offer perspectives no one else could. Now, because I'm a father this is a very emotionally charged issue for me. It conjurs up the spectre of CPS coming and snatching kids out of homes as a rescuer because they don't agree with someone's ideology. It reminds me of Herod and the slaughter of innocents and historically kids have been used as hostages by state entities to force compliance with a party line. I think if Jedi did this on Kesh it would be in very bad taste, especially if those kids already had parents who were capable of raising them even if they served a different ideology. I would expect Sith to do this like the Force Unleashed, but Jedi need to take a higher road than that, which presents them with a very difficult problem. It would work better if the kids were refugees, perhaps of a war with Jedi and the Jedi accept responsibility for their care being the cause of their seperation from teir parents. Raised as Jedi, the kids become loyal to that philosophy but when they mature and it's time to discover the truth of their origins, they seperate from the Jedi sheerly on principal, which is more of a matter of honor and Dignity than it would be to serve a political agenda. and thus could the Imperial Knights be born.
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  23. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

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    I think the issue is somewhat altered because the majority of Kesh Sith aren't traumatized child-soldiers. They're backstabbing snobby nobles.

    Essentially, Hapans with lightsabers.

    They're Dark Side but "dark with streetlights" not the all-consuming Black Hole of Bane's tutelage.
    Last edited by Charlemagne19, Oct 25, 2012
  24. Zorrixor Chosen One

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    The teenage future Sith Lords are certainly snobby nobles... but what about the wider Sith-Keshiri society?

    Think of what happened after the Great Hyperspace War: the Jedi committed genocide, and centuries later it came back to bite them when an even more vengeful revived Sith Empire returned to take revenge.

    Why not learn from their past , and this time recognise that the vast 90% of Kesh are not Sith Lords... but those lords' subjects? The Sith lied that they were the planets gods. Is it not time the Jedi set the record straight and set their people free?
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  25. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

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    Are there that many Kesh left after Abeloth and Luke tore through them?