What if Obi-Wan Kenobi was in Mace's place?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by wassssup, May 10, 2005.

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  1. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    Who doesn't love Kenobi? That's not the question though. He's my favorite character in the GFFA. I try not to let that affect my view of his abilities, though.
  2. COMMANDER76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    *breaks through the fog of lies and puts on KENOBITE t-shirt*
  3. joshuavance Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2002
    star 3
    That's right, see how easy it is?


    Unleash your inner Obi.
  4. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    Unleash your inner Obi.

    now put your little Inner Obi away now Josh. [face_laugh] but i like Kenobi just fine.
  5. joshuavance Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2002
    star 3
    Oh being a Kenoob isn't anything perverted Duggy, it's actually bliss.

    Being a Kenobite is a mindset. It's an attitude, like he with the glorious magical goatee-like beard.

    It applies to life too. If someone comes up and starts talking trash, you ask yourself, what would the Kenobi do??

    And then the answer magically hits you,

    you smirk,crack a one-liner, and then unleash ultimate Kenobage on the offending moron that dares disrespect your goatee sanctity.

    See that's the beauty of Obi-Wan Kenobi.

    he doesn't put up with peoples bulls***. He doesn't tolerate that and he regulates it.

    All of the people that keep bringing up Dooku, if they notice VEEEERY carefully, Obi-Wan despite being beaten, completely and utterly disrespected Dooku. He didn't fear the Count in the least. He talked trash to him.

    "I don't think so."

    Blocked Dooku's lightning and smirked. Wiped that little coy smile off Dookus face.

    Don't worry, it will click eventually for you guys.
  6. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    Let's get it to 1000! So, as I was saying, who doesn't love Kenobi? But the question posed in the thread is slightly different. It's about his abilities as a force user and duelist. Also, it's about the way he would have dealt with this situation in a different manner than Mace. It seems like this discussion is still stuck on talking about whether or not he would have even made it as far as Mace. For the sake of argument, let's say he lasts as long as Mace, then gets a kick in and puts Sids on his back. Does this change what Anakin does? Would he see through Sidious? Say he didn't, and he cut off Obi-Wan's hand? Then Obi-Wan would have got blasted by Sidious. Imagine how much worse the "What have I done?" feeling would have been for Anakin? I think he may have killed Sidious in a rage after that, while Sidious was lying on the floor, making his little post-coital sigh. *Gahhhhh*
  7. joshuavance Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2002
    star 3
    It also as I've pointed out before depends entirely on WHEN in Obi-Wan's life he faces Sidious.


    People forever bring up the little number scale, but they forget that applies only to the Prequel Trilogy, and really ROTS.

    If Obi-Wan is an 8 in ROTS, he would HAVE to be a 9 by the time of ANH.

    Characters only get stronger in the Force as they age and mature, Dooku, Sidious, Mace, etc etc.

    That is often overlooked by people because no one has ever came out and said it but, it only stands to reason. Obi-Wan certainly wouldn't get weaker in the intervening years, since a Jedi and Sith fight with the Force. There is a 20 year gap in between III and IV, and being a level 8 at Obi-Wan's age in ROTS is pretty damn good. Mace was probably an 8 in TPM 13 years prior to ROTS when he was around Obi-Wan's age.

  8. COMMANDER76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    I still feel that Kenobi stands a much better chance at convincing Anakin not to simply kill him on Palpatine's word than Mace Windu.

    In addition I feel than Obi-Wan would figure out Palpatine's hold over Anakin before his head came tumbling off.

    So if Kenobi can last as long as Mace...he has a decidely better chance IMO to come out victorious.

    But thats a big "if"
  9. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    So if Kenobi can last as long as Mace...he has a decidely better chance IMO to come out victorious.

    But thats a big "if"


    If he lasted as long as he did with Anakin , don't you think he would have done at least as well as Mace did with Palpatine?. i think ,at least?
  10. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    See, that's the thing Duggy, based on what we see of Mace in the films, we don't really have much to go on in terms of his skills as a duelist. So, it's surprising to me that HE even lasted as long as he did. But I know people are going to say he's on par with Yoda, the OS says, he's the head of teh council, vaapad, etc...but really to a SW fan, it's kinda strange that he's able to hang in there with the Emperor simple based on the fact that we didn't see him in the OT, which lessens the nostalgia factor. Plus, we just never really saw Mace do anything amazing in the PT. I know battle of Geonosis, blah blah, Jengo Fett, but this is the Emperor we're talking about here! GL says Mace is strong, so I accept it. Plus, I like the Clone Wars cartoons.
  11. COMMANDER76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    I think Kenobi could have taken Sidious down...

    Sidious would be overconfident and arrogant in trying to break Kenobi down for ruining his plans on various occasions...

    A mistake would be made...

    The rest is history...

    The ultimate sword would fall to the ultimate shield and Vegas would erupt
  12. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    Face it, based on what we've seen in the films, Kenobi is a much better Jedi than Mace.

    Well, it looks like I've kinda changed my mind a bit here.

    If we go on quotes, assumptions,etc., we are invariably lead to the fact that Mace is "more powerful" than Kenobi, but based on what we see in the film, we really see a lot more impressive things from Obi-Wan than from Mace.
  13. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    From what we see in the Films , who could argue otherwise?.

    unless you count Smirks and Glares , then Mace is the Better Jedi for Sure.
  14. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    ROFL!

    Mace excels in "Force Facial Manipulation," a little known but powerful force skill...
  15. COMMANDER76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    We see Kenobi accomplish more, but then again Kenobi is asked to do more of the council than Mace who leads it with Yoda.

    Mace is definitely the better Jedi overall IMO...because he's not "reckless" like Obi-Wan and wouldn't have catered to Anakin the way Kenobi did. Kenobi's failings as a Jedi directly contributed to Anakin's fall to the darkside. All I'm saying here is that Kenobi does have talents that might serve him better in this situation than Mace Windu.

    1. His defence is as good as Mace's
    2. He has more experince with Sith Lords
    3. He has the more intimate relationship with Anakin as a mentor and friend
    4. He is aware of Padme and how she fits into Anakin's life
  16. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    Yeah, I guess it's not really fair since Obi-Wan is more of a main character than Mace.
  17. COMMANDER76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    Well neither Mace nor Yoda have the same screen time as Kenobi because Kenobi is more of a plot driven main character than both of them...but that doesn't translate to powers...or else Padme would be capable of owning Sidious as well.:p
  18. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    she could. own him, that is. ;) oh yes. she could. or could she?
  19. COMMANDER76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
  20. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    Well, except what do we see Padme do that particularly impressive? And don't talk about the kicking and the shooting things with blasters. That has nothing to do with her power; we see more of what Obi-Wan can and can't do, so we have a better understanding of what kind of Jedi he is than of what kind of Jedi Mace is.

    Edit: I know that you're joking. Also, she could own me any time. And there are some impressive moments from her in the film, just not the way we were talking about...eh chaps...eh? ;)
  21. COMMANDER76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    Its true that we get to see Kenobi struggle and triumph all throughout the PT...
    Its true we never get that same connectivity to Mace...
    But Lucas settled this on day 1 by writing Mace as Yoda's peer in knowledge in power...that gave all of us OT heads the clear green light to project the same feelings we have and covet of Yoda onto Mace...which is what I did.
    So Mace beating Sidious was no shocker to me because Mace is no worse than the 3rd most powerful force user in the galaxy...and possibly number 1 with a lightsaber.
  22. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    i cant believe what im hearing :( .i was right,you've changed [face_worried]
  23. MacetheCouncillor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2003
    star 3
    I basically agree with farrellg as far as Kenobi's chances against Sidious goes when it comes to actual combat skill. I do not think he would have lasted against him very long. joshua doesn't like when Obi's failures against Dooku is brought up, but I think they are relevant. Dooku resembles Sidious more than Maul, pre-suit Vader or Grievous does. He has significantly more devoloped Force powers than a simple push. And Sidious only has even stronger Force powers than Dooku, so I think it fairly safe to say that Kenobi would be going down pretty quickly, even though he would last longer than Mace's posse.
    However, Kenobi might have brought Anakin along from the beginning and might have held a greater sway on Anakin than Mace did, so we don't know how the scene would play out.
    If, however, Kenobi would have gone with Mace's posse and not Anakin (like Mace did), I think there is a good 99+ % chance that Anakin would find all four of the Jedi dead by the time he arrived to the scene.
  24. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    agreed.
  25. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    I think that had Mace been of world and the Kenobi was the only Jedi remaining, he wouldnt have gone off to face Sidious immediatly, he would have waitied. But if he did go he would certainly have taken Anakin with him.

    I would think that at this stage Kenobi's influence over Anakin would have enabled him to keep Anakin on the straight and narrow. Obi Wan would have been more intent on discovering Anakins conflicts and problems. He could have set him straight on so many things.

    But I think people are underestimating Sidious here. He was controlling the war. He was behind Yoda going off world as much as he was behind Kenobi's departure. He knew that these were the only two people who posed a threat to his plans. He could read the jedi like a book.

    That left Windu, whom IMO, we knew to have persoanl issues with Anakin. they didnt have the smoothest of relationships. It certainly didnt appear to be the family like connection that was evident among some of the other jedi.

    That why IMO Sidious was never worried when Anakin was around. He always knew that with Kenobi and Yoda off world that he could have Anakin in his pocket.

    In terms of Kenobi's abilities. He certainly wouldnt have gone out like the other posse punks. Kenobi was far too cunning for that. But he wouldnt have been able to compete with Sidious like Mace could.
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