What if Obi-Wan Kenobi was in Mace's place?

People like yoshifett will listen to Lucas no matter what. Even if he said that Anakin is really a girl, then that is truth because Lucas said it. Obi Wan Kenobi is a great Jedi. As soon as I saw the title to the topic, I knew it would be filled up with Obi Bashers. People whos charecters don't even come close to living up to his legacy, they get all pissy that Obi Wan *Gasps* is a Great Jedi. Get over it. Obi Wan may not=Most Powerful Jedi ever, but it is ridiculous to dispute that he is above the average Jedi. People just LOVE to bring up Dooku. The only reason he lost both times was because of story purposes. You all know it. He had to lose the first time, so Yoda would have his big fight. He had to lose the second time so Anakin could gain revenge. Also people love to say Obi Wan is a bad fighter, WRONG. Dooku is just VERY skilled. Sidious is skilled as well. I'm not saying that Sidious won't put up a hard fight. Sidious may even win. I wont argue that. But anyone here who says that Obi Wan will lose in 5 seconds needs to pull their heads out of their butts. Because Obi Wan would thrash Sidious before going down.

 

then anakin would be supermad and (possibly) attack obi-wan and be defeated by his master and then less jedi would have died, because the rest of the movie he would be getting refitted for the vader suit.

 

"People like yoshifett will listen to Lucas no matter what. Even if he said that Anakin is really a girl, then that is truth because Lucas said it. Obi Wan Kenobi is a great Jedi. As soon as I saw the title to the topic, I knew it would be filled up with Obi Bashers"

First off, I'm not an Obi-Wan basher. He is my favorite SW Character. And I think Obi-Wan is a great jedi. I mean, there is an abundance of evidence for that, especially in Episode III.

Secondly, the reason why I listen to Lucas when he says something like "only mace and yoda would have a chance against the emperor" is because it is his story.

He creates these characters, and thus is the one we should listen to if we want to know what attributes, strenght, powers and abilities they have.

He created them, and when is comes to these somewhat absurd "What if x fought x" threads, his word should be treated as, if not the final answer, at least slightly more valid than an average fan.

 

Well DS let me ask you this,

what if it was Mace, Yoda, Obi-Wan, Plo-Koon, Ki-Adi, and any two other "council" members??

You mean to tell me you STILL think it would have turned out the same?

Yes, it would still turn out the same. All of them would die. Anakin and Palpatine can wipe all of them out. They're stronger than all 10,000 Jedi Knights.


The only reason that Anakin was beaten was because he fought angry. He makes a foolish mistake, because he lets his anger cloud his judgement. Palpatine has years of experience and control of his anger. He doesn't make a mistake in either fight that takes place. Four Jedi Masters died because of him and Yoda lost his fight.

 

darth sinister, no offence but 10,000 jedi.yeah right.you sound like super shadow now.


yoda, and mace would clean floor with sidious and anakin.

 

george lucas borrows so many concepts and story archetypes as well as characters that this star wars saga is not his. It is something that holds its roots in the beginnings of mythology.

He takes the classic themes present in stories all througout the world and history and adapted it to a space drama. He then hammered out the details by creating specific chracters (such as obi-wan, who is an archetype that pushes forward certain themes of the story) interacting with other specific characters (such as luke, who pushes other themes of the story). These two characters embody the specific themes of the stories. By personifying those themes in these characters it brings an easier understanding of what is trying to be expressed, and where these two characters interact their themes mix to push the story forward. There have been numerous comparisons to shakespear on these boards. Lucas did not invent those concepts did he? Therefore he does not hold the only interpretation for them.

The characters embody the use and significance to the story. Like he says in the ANH commentary (and ESB) that he decided to kill Obi-wan off part way into the production of the movie. Therefore he needed the wise character to teach luke in ESB thus the birth of yoda.

The many levels of understanding star wars in relation to the human spirit or real life theology is not only known to lucas. The depths of the star wars meaning can be interpreted and understood by anyone and there really is no end to the poosibilities of it. Lucas is not the only person ever to think of these ideas, there is no need to pretend that he is the only one to license what is and is not possible. Star wars extends beyond lucas' imagination because its themes are inherent in all life. LUCAS IS NOT ALL LIFE!!

 

I believe that the scenario that I mentioned wouldnt happen BECAUSE they could defeat Sidious.

It's like "Final Destination", what's meant to happen MUST happen eventually, if Mace, Yoda, Obi, Plo, Ki-Adi, etc. had been on the way to Sidious' office to confront him SOMETHING would have happen to make sure they didnt get there.

But if they DID that would have been the end for Sidious.

(but like I said, that's WHY they wouldnt get there)

 

The biggest difference in events that would have occured if Obi-wan went instead of Mace, would be that Obi-wan would have brought Anakin along. When those two fight together, side by side, they are a powerful force to rekon with. And if Anakin saw Sidious jump over his desk and attack his comrades, his instincts would kick in, and he would have fought with the Jedi, not against them. Together, Obi-wan and Anakin would have defeated Sidious, and arrested him. Personally, I'm glad it's Mace that goes. The story's much better that way.

 

Star wars extends beyond lucas' imagination because its themes are inherent in all life. LUCAS IS NOT ALL LIFE!!

Naturally, but that's not what's being argued here. What's being argued is about the strength of a character. Take a game designer, for example. If he programs one "boss" character to be stronger than another, we can be fairly certain that this character is indeed stronger than the other, because he programmed. What Lucas does is very similar, he says this character is stronger than this character because he wrote it that way. It is essential to the mechanics of the plot. Of course the themes/archetypes/plot arcs/etc. that GL uses are universal, that's why we can all relate to them so well!

 

I think Obi-Wan would be more reasonable, and agree to put Palps on trial
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Never, it's not a logical choice. Palps would have walked, and the Jedi would have been dismantled, not to mention having everyone turn against them.

Anakin would have chosen Palps... It's not about friendship with neither Kenobi or Palps. It's about Padme.

However, another question is why didn't Anakin turn to Kenobi? Why didn't Kenobi tell Anakin he knew of their marriage, and because of their friendship he didn't say anything?

Hindsight is 20/20. As Yoda said, there is no why.

 

i know that is not what is being argued here, but it does have bearing on the situation proposed. I guess i get a little worked up sometimes when i see multiple people saying that if george lucas says it then thats gospel.

i think in the because of obiwan and anakins relationship that it would create a circumstance for obi-wan to escape unscathed, but anakin would still have sided with sids. Therefore the jedi would then be poised against anakin and sids. eventually i think it would lead to mace taking a group to fight sids and anakin (fearing now that anakin joined sids they would destroy the republic)..

in short i basically think that by some circumstance through the force obi-wan would escape the encounter and mace would come back to attack sids and anakin, with a bigger posse, perhaps even against the will of obi or yoda. basically then mace would go down just the same, it would just take longer to show as far as the story goes.

Obi-wan has survived several outmatched situations already (maul, dooku). Obi-wans power lies in the fact that the force needs to keep him around.

 

Obi-Wan would be dead, and Mace would say Luke is too old to train.Only kidding.

 

lol jedi master moon

 

You know i think GL should re-film all of Mace's scenes using Dave Chappelle with a jerry curl wig on, and just use his performance over sam jacksons.

Mace: <yelling> "YOU'RE UNDER ARREST!"
Palps: "Could you please stop yelling at me?"
Mace: "NO I CANT STOP YELLING CAUSE THATS HOW I TALK!"

 

Someone had to say this, so I'll just go ahead:
"I'm Mace Windu, bitch!"

 

Many of you seem to be forgetting that Obi-Wan was able to defeat Anakin in a fair fight. Anakin is more powerful than Sidious; if Obi-Wan can hold his own against the Chosen One, he can definitely handle Palps. Yeah, killing Sidious is Anakin's destiny blah blah blah blah... but I'm certain that Obi-Wan would have been more difficult to handle than Mace, and there's nothing that says anyone who fights Palps and/or Anakin has to die... look at Yoda.

 

He defeated Anakin because he knew him inside and out. They're best friends, and expirence was on his side.

 

Yeah, but who's to say he wouldn't have done the same thing in Palps' office?

 

In case you missed it Darth Guy, here it is, one last time:

"You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor," Lucas says. "If Anakin hadn't got all beat up, he could've beat the Emperor."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 204

So, seeing as Obi-Wan is not Mace or Yoda, he would have gotten owned.

 

Strange that Lucas contradicts himself, since Anakin DOES beat the Emperor.

 

if obi was in maces place he would not have lasted long enough to let ani get their. obi got owned bye dooku in just a few seconds and mace is just as powerful as dooku and possibley a better duelist so nno more obi and possibley no more ot

 

That's not what he meant at all. He was saying, in a straight up fight, Anakin would have eventually been able to take down Sidious. They never fight at all, Anakin/Vader just picks Sids up, throws him down the shaft, and fulfills his destiny as the chosen one by defeating the Dark Lord, thus bringing balance to the force by destroy the last reminent of the corruption of the Dark side.

 

Shouldn't Sidious have been able to kill Anakin anyway? I mean, lightning that instantly dropped Luke when Palps was just playing with him should surely be able to do the same to Vader when the Emperor was desperately trying to save himself, right?

 

yoda, and mace would clean floor with sidious and anakin

One went into self imposed exile, after getting his butt handed to him and the other is street pizza. If Yoda had come with Mace, he would've been dead because Anakin would've tore into him and made sure that he died.

The biggest difference in events that would have occured if Obi-wan went instead of Mace, would be that Obi-wan would have brought Anakin along. When those two fight together, side by side, they are a powerful force to rekon with. And if Anakin saw Sidious jump over his desk and attack his comrades, his instincts would kick in, and he would have fought with the Jedi, not against them. Together, Obi-wan and Anakin would have defeated Sidious, and arrested him. Personally, I'm glad it's Mace that goes. The story's much better that way.

Anakin would still side with Palpatine. Because he has the knowledge to save Padme. That's the only reason he betrayed Mace, because he knew that Windu wouldn't hesitate to kill Palpatine. As Lucas says, Anakin realizes that by turning Palpatine in to Mace, he just sealed the deal on Padme's fate.

Once again. Obi-wan defeated Vader because the latter made a mistake, by fighting angry. By letting his anger cloud his judgement. In the case of Mace, he made only one mistake and that was trusting Anakin to help him. Here's the pecking order, in the PT.

Anakin
Palpatine
Yoda
Mace
Dooku
Maul
Obi-wan

 

There's a lot of stuff to respond to here...
Obi-Wan wasn't strong enough to face the emperor and I believe that. Vader WOULD HAVE become the greatest sith in history because of the simple fact that he was the most powerful force user EVER. No debates. He was destined to become more powerful than yoda, palps, or perhaps both of them combined because he had so many midichlorians and was the chosen one.
At that point in time though he wasn't yet stronger than either of them. Obi-Wan could not have faced the emperor, but he COULD have faced Anakin because Obi-Wan knew Anakin's fighting style so well they were both sort of evenly matched. Anakin's power would've destroyed Obi-Wan but he had not yet realized how to control his anger. His anger made him reckless and full of mistakes.
I still maintain that if Obi-Wan was there instead of Mace Anakin would've gone with him and destroyed Sidious. And Obi-Wan didn't tell Anakin that he knew about the marriage because it made Anakin happy, it says so in the novel:
*Obi-Wan to Padme*"But we prenteded I didn't know because it made him happy, YOU made him happy when nothing else truly could."
But obviously that's not what happened in Lucas' story so Lucas made sure that didn't happen.
As Yoda would say:
"Dwell on what could have been we must not."