Speculation What if the "big assumptions" are wrong, and the Empire is still in control?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Ghost, Jun 23, 2013.

  1. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
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    Aug 19, 2003
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    Dear Lord... Make them hear me this time... [face_praying]

    STOP STACKING POSTS. DOUBLE POSTING IS SPAMMING. PEOPLE WILL BE BANNED. "EDIT" IS YOUR FRIEND. STACKING POSTS IS NOT.
  2. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    Chorus, you always act like someone's a repeat offender when in fact they aren't.
    Sean Sinclair likes this.
  3. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    I act as thought eht13 and I have made this announcement in more threads than I can care to count and people still do whatever they want and disregard it. Our new offer is that people who want to stack posts will be given the freedom to do so until their hearts are content in our Unban Request forum.
    Last edited by A Chorus of Disapproval, Jun 28, 2013
  4. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    This thread is about challenging assumptions. So I'm going to challenge the idea prevalent throughout TFN that factions can't die. In fact, I've seen posters use double standards to to support this idea. For example, whenever the EU gets contradicted, posters say, "But the EU is canon!" However, whenever I point out the ROTJ novelization's explanation for the Empire dying with Palpatine (The Empire depended on Palpatine's Force Powers), posters will say, "Screw the novelizations!" Does anyone else see the double standard here?
    VanishingReality likes this.
  5. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    Yeah, the novelizations are so often and conveniently labeled the only non-canon books... when they are quite possibly the only canon books...
  6. EviL_eLF Force Ghost

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    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    My understanding of the Empire relying on Palpatine's powers was that he was using some sort of Battle Meditation and his distruction sent the fleet into confusion with the loss of that link. Thus, they lost the Battle of Endor. That was just that battle though, the war continues on elsewhere after said battle.
    The Hellhammer likes this.
  7. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    In fact, TTT references the novelizations on several occasions.


    Is this in light of the EU or not? Is this based on your theories (as your posts are known to be) or just on facts?
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jun 28, 2013
  8. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

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    I completely forgot that. It's been decades since I read TTT, but you are definitely correct.
    darklordoftech likes this.
  9. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    For example, the loss of Palpatine's powers leads to Pellaeon ordering the remaining Imperial forces to retreat from Endor and when Luke researched Jorus, he also finds information on Senator Palpatine.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jun 28, 2013
    kubricklynch likes this.
  10. EviL_eLF Force Ghost

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    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    I have read that in the EU... I have not read what is exactly said in the ROTJ novelization.
  11. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Sep 30, 2012
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    Thanks for the clarification. As far as the EU goes, you're correct (as explained in my above post). I'm going to check exactly what the novelization says.
  12. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Dark Horse is actually making a comic book on the rough draft of Star Wars, coming out this September.

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Star_Wars

    [IMG]
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, Jun 28, 2013
  13. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Sep 30, 2012
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    I wonder if any concepts from that draft will show up (in some form) in the ST.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jun 28, 2013
  14. Trebor Sabreon Force Ghost

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    Sep 15, 2010
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    I know this is off-topic, but since you brought it up, I've been meaning to ask someone who might know:

    Is there any reason we can't get rid of the 30 window for the edit function? If it can't be eliminated altogether, how about bumping it up to at least one hour?

    The keys on my laptop tend to stick sometimes, and I can't tell you how many times I've just missed out on being able to edit a spelling error I didn't notice until I was 2 seconds too late to do anything about it. As you point out, there are, of course, other compelling uses for the edit feature, too, so why does it have to be such a small window?
    Darth Chiznuk and darklordoftech like this.
  15. FloydB1Kenobi Force Ghost

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    Jun 13, 2002
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    What if there is no republic or empire at least none that could really be recognized as so? Just factions seeking to gain control over the galaxy each with their own ideal government, which eventually leads to each system being at war with the next. What if because of this it causes technology o be somewhat lost from each system possibly bring about a galactic dark age. There's many different ways the stories can be told.
  16. Praenomen Cognomen Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2013
    star 4
    I think the most interesting thing mentioned in the OP is the idea that Leia and Han don't get married. In retrospect, the way everything worked out for them so perfectly almost seems... fanfictiony.

    Now I have an idea for an alternate universe story, where maybe they're together for a while, but Leia's preoccupied with running the New Republic, and it puts a strain on their marriage. Han goes off and becomes sorta like Bogart in Casablanca... has a history with the Rebellion, doesn't tell anybody about it. Maybe he grows a beard, opens a cantina, Chewie takes up playing the organ there... other wars happen, power shifts back and forth, never really affecting him... then one day, Leia walks in, in hiding. Only, it would diverge from the Casablanca formula here: she reveals that they do have kids together!

    Man. My problems with overwriting the EU specifically come from the idea that, if the ST happens to set up the pieces in a way that looks remotely similar to the current place of the EU books (that is to say, Han and Leia are married with grown kids, Luke has a son, his wife's out of the picture, etc...), it would be silly to recklessly overwrite the EU by changing names and stuff, because it could pretty easily be made to fit without even referring to the EU; just using the setup it provides. However, I'm all for a vast departure with much more complex relationships.
  17. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    This thread is making me wonder if there were any common assumptions about the PT that ended up being wrong.
    Sean Sinclair likes this.
  18. Darth Chiznuk Chosen One

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    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    A lot. The ones I remember the most are that Obi-Wan would be the one to discover Anakin, Anakin would be older in Episode I, the Clones would be the ones attacking the Republic, etc.
  19. LunarMoth Force Ghost

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    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    Yeah, put this right next to "But George Lucas said......"
  20. darklordoftech Force Ghost

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    Sep 30, 2012
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    Are you saying that you agree or disagree with my post?
  21. LunarMoth Force Ghost

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    Nov 27, 2012
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    Very much agree. Same double standard with "Lucas said so..."
    darklordoftech likes this.
  22. dolphin Chosen One

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    Nov 5, 1999
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    Right, especially if Episode VII takes place decades after ROTJ. There is no reason for the Empire to be around, especially without Palpatine. There was no ideology to keep them around, no cause celebre.
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  23. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    But what would the philosophies and government structures of those factions be? If they're just mini-Empire's and mini-Republics and mini-Confederacy's, that's boring. There should be something unique and philosophically challenging with the ST's antagonists.

    Unless the Empire evolved. Became more like the EU's Fel Empire.
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, Jun 29, 2013
  24. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    1. There's so many different philosophies and government structures out there. Environmentalism, communism, etc.
    2. Am I right that you're against introducing new factions in the ST?
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jun 29, 2013
  25. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    No, like I said I like my "Liberator" idea.

    I'm saying it shouldn't be overly-complex, or seem repetitive.

    And I know about the other political philosophies. But they are all really flavors of the big ones: empire (attempts total control), republic (balanced control), confederacy (too little control, special interests take over), and anarchy (no control). Also, see this EU thread I made.
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, Jun 29, 2013