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What if the Nazis had never existed?

Discussion in 'Lucasfilm Ltd. In-Depth Discussion' started by AdamBertocci, Dec 27, 2004.

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  1. AdamBertocci

    AdamBertocci Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Feb 3, 2002
    What if the Nazis had never risen to power? What if Hitler got hit by a car or something before ever putting his plans in motion? (Or whatever.)

    Nazis made effective villains. It saves a lot of time when your bad guys are immediately established in your audience's mind as scum who must be stopped just by showing their logo. We immediately can get on Indy's side when we know he's fighting Nazis, and furthermore, the films make good use of Hitler's (real-life!) interest in the supernatural as a jumping-off point.

    How would the Indiana Jones movies have fared without World War II as a backdrop and the Nazis as the bad guys? Would Spielberg and GL changed the time period to have Indy fight other historical baddies? Or found different unpleasant folk of the '40s to go after? Or perhaps made some up of their own?

    Rick McCallum loves you!
  2. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 9

    Sep 27, 2000
    Raiders without Nazis is just... well, it's pretty hard to think of. I can't imagine who you'd put in the bad guy roll then. Lucas and Spielberg could probably have gone the old serial route of just making up a tremendous arch villain with his own motivations. He could have been a rich, powerful ficticious figure obsessed with the occult and with the ability to hire toadies.

    But being based on historically cast 'bad guys' makes it a lot more relatable, I think. It adds a sense of authenticity to it.

    [hl=white]-sj loves kevin spacey[/hl]
  3. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    May 17, 2003
    They would have been replaced by Soviets.

  4. BauconBatista

    BauconBatista Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jun 24, 2004
    [face_devil] MOLA RAM x3 [face_devil]
  5. Tzan

    Tzan Jedi Youngling

    Dec 30, 2004
    Guys. Indy is a Nazi. This time saving is a way to make people stupid. They are not showing you the logo to make you remember. They want you to think.
    If Hitler had died, I (or you) would have led milions to death. Death is INEVITABLE element of life. Fear is inevitable element of civilization.
    Stop dreaming, start thinking.

    Tell me if you know the meaning of every colour.
  6. Emos-Edud

    Emos-Edud Jedi Padawan star 4

    May 29, 2002
    My extended family would be a lot bigger!

    GREEN_JEDI_ELF Jedi Youngling

    Dec 14, 2004
    No Nazis?

    No baddies for Indy to kill, no baddies for Hellboy to kill, no baddies for Captain America to kill.

  8. Tokio_Drifter

    Tokio_Drifter Jedi Youngling star 2

    Dec 24, 2003
    They would have created any person, at least obsessed with the occult. No doubt about it.
  9. MonaToral

    MonaToral Jedi Youngling star 1

    Oct 16, 2004
    they probably would have just made up some fictional enemies and put them in.
  10. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    May 17, 2003
    America always has an enemy of two.

  11. Tokio_Drifter

    Tokio_Drifter Jedi Youngling star 2

    Dec 24, 2003
    yup. Without it, it wouldn't excist.
  12. Wutang

    Wutang Jedi Youngling

    Jan 23, 2005
  13. Chancellor_Ewok

    Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost star 7

    Nov 8, 2004
    I couldn't imagine Hollywood without the Nazis to fall back on as villians. They're completely evil, EVERYONE knows who they are, nobody bats an eylash when they get blown away en masse and they have cool uniforms.
  14. malducin

    malducin Jedi Padawan star 4

    Oct 23, 2001
    There are/were plenty of entities who could have served as a replacement. It's not like Stalin was exactly a nice guy. You could have used things from Chinese pirates, warlords and dictators of all kinds. Though of course Nazis are probably the epitome of it and thus best suited for that role.
  15. slobadog

    slobadog Jedi Padawan star 4

    Aug 28, 2002
    No they might still have the nazis, it would just all seem a little stranger.
  16. Tatooine_Gemini

    Tatooine_Gemini Jedi Youngling star 1

    Jul 29, 2004

    Pychology.. Historical Facts, Human Nature and Current Events should let us understand one simple thing about this world we live in....
    WE are our own worst Enemy. There is no Us and Them. We are WE.

    This is studied extensively in psychology and history and being a Psych student for 20some years I can tell you that we are looking in the mirror when we look to our enemy. Human is Human and all can be capable of hate and terror.
    Yes there is a Hero and there is a Villain.. that is clear. And what is wrong will be fought. But we are of one race.. we are WE.

    Lucas is a big fan and student of Joseph Campbell
    who said this in "Hero of a thousand faces"
    .."The hero discovers (his own unsuspected self) and assimilates his opposite.. One by one the resistances are broken, He must put aside pride, his virtue, beauty and Life, and bow and submit to the absolutely intolerable. It is THEN he finds that he and his opposite are not of different Species, but of One flesh." -Campbell

    A hard thing to swallow, but if we are to evolve into a higher and more Loving and truthful and self aware human kind we have to understand this. There is no Us and Them. In psychology that "us and them" mentality is documented as the most dangerous idea psychologically to humanity as a whole.
    After all ...the Nazi belief was based on Us and them mentality... so WHY ON EARTH should we Ever
    decide to think that way too?

    Why not face the truth.. that we are ALL human. And that gives us ALL the jealousy, anger, fear, submission, hatred, and ability to crack or get sick in our minds or take drastic measures.. WE are all one Race. So... when we look to the Nazis we see a group that was led psychologically to belive that the way Hitler wanted things done was the only way.
    Hitler was a master mind Manipulator and led a strong army of a huge size and of huge power. Never in history was there a chance so big for a man so filled with rage and sickness to get his plans in action.. and so he took that chance.

    What many people do not know is that Hitler was A HUMAN BEING. A person who died at his own hand.
    A man who during his time in power did not lift a hand to kill.. he had others do it for him.
    (Strange). A man who was terribly drug addicted and led to do things under influence of drug addiction, psychological disorders, and medical problems serious enough to become eventually fatal.
    He was a weak and beaten man who led the country to believe his was the opposite of that. HE was human.
    But he would not allow himself to be human.
    He was Jewish as well. His story is very complicated and harsh.. I DO NOT agree with his delusions.. I just empathize with pain. His pain created pain all over the earth.. in SO very many lives. Yet, it all started with one.

    You speak of "Evil" people.. of evil groups of thousands upon thousands of people.. called the Nazis.. how can that be? Thousands born of the devil and evil? Did they not have moms and dads? A life? A personality? Evil may ot be the term... sick maybe, misled definately.. filled with hate? Yes.
    Brainwashed? ABSOLUTELY. Yet there is always more to every story.. what is not commonly known is this.. most were told they must fight or be considered a traitor to the Regime (that means certain death or camps etc and not just them but their families as well). And when they did fight.. ask the WW2 US fighters themselves.. they will tell you that the Nazi fighters were not ALLOWED TO surrender ..this means EVER. This was under penalty of death too. There were battles where those humans faced certain death at US hands and kept fighting down to the last man because if he did not fight his own commanders would kill him for surrendering.
    I wish someone would make a film of that dillema. That is a terrible thing to do to a human.. to make him a killing machine incapable of surrender or feeling or compassion and only brainwahsed to know that he MUST obey or die like the rest.. think about it.. if you were placed in that situation.. you would PRAY TO GOD to be strong enough to say NO I

    DARTHMORDOR Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jun 17, 2003
    How did I miss this post in March? If you don't like a thread, don't post in it.
  18. Renderking_Fisk

    Renderking_Fisk Jedi Youngling star 1

    Oct 18, 2002
    I?m working on a review of the ?Sky Captain? DVD on [link=] The Fedora Chronicles website [/link] website and I actually try write about that as an angle to explain the ?Universe/World? that the movie exists? an alternate world where The Nazi?s never came to power under Hitler.

    There?s the thought that Evil manifests itself every few centuries, and the first half of the 20th Century was that time. Winston Churchill called The Second World War ?The Preventable War? because they saw what was happening but turned a blind eye to it.

    Who?s to say what would have happened if Hitler hadn?t come to power? or if he filled a need that ?evil? or ?The Devil? had to manifest it into? who knows.

    Asking and exploring those questions and seeking answers may prevent other evil acts from happening again, but I doubt it. There?s ethnic cleansing in Africa and it doesn?t make the news as much as Britney Spears and her marriage troubles.
  19. LordSilvertouch

    LordSilvertouch Jedi Master star 4

    Apr 19, 2003
    Lmao. Can you imagine how inneffective Schindler's List would have been if the Nazi's hadn't risen to power? [face_plain]

    Actually, without the Nazi's, there would be no Indiana Jones or Star Wars, because the serials which Lucas and Spielberg watched wouild be completely different.
  20. Xhedias

    Xhedias Jedi Youngling

    May 25, 2005
    There wouldnt be a LOTR series either, it was inspired by the world wars :p
  21. PlayingForceBaseball

    PlayingForceBaseball Jedi Youngling

    Jun 7, 2005
    I think that you have a really good point, and so do a lot of the people that replied. If Hitler never existed are you sure that the Russians(soviet) would have taken his place? Or would it have been a middle eastern man or somebody from the US with a lot of money. Dean Koontz wrote a book called Lightning, and in the end of the book... The Russians had won WW2. Everyone in America was driving Russian cars and things like that. What if this happened in real life?
  22. Benny_Blanco

    Benny_Blanco Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jul 21, 2002

    Actually, without the Nazis (and thus WW2) - the Soviets wouldn`t have had any "sphere of influence" in the wider world, and so wouldn`t have been seen as such a menace.

    Some of the posts in this thread are downright weird, by the way!
  23. black_saber

    black_saber Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Apr 4, 2002
    Yet the Nazis still have the Best looking Uniforms. I had a Relatve that died in the Holocaust too. He was Murdered by an SS Officer in Russia and he forced to dig his own Grave.
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