Saga What if the PT was made first?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Drewdude91, May 22, 2011.

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  1. MrFantastic74 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2010
    star 4
    I think if "The Phantom Menace" (probably titled "Star Wars") hit the theatres in 1977, with 1977 special effects, 1977 filming capabilities and 1977 production value, it may have enjoyed some moderate success or simply broken even. However, I have a very difficult time picturing that story with those characters generating a huge financial success.

    "Star Wars" ("A New Hope") was such a success becuause it was so ideally suited for the audience of that day. It was a deeply character-driven story with a plot simple enough for a new audience to comprehend. It had so many iconic characters and events that instantly drove to the peak of popular culture.

    I don't think the storyline and characters of TPM would have held up in the same way. The movie would likely be viewed as "just another wacky sci-fi", and would largely be ignored. Much like "Zardoz", starring Sean Connery. I don't think Lucas would have been greenlit for a sequel, and the franchise would have died. We would not be SW fans today and we would not be posting on this board.

    Thank goodness ANH came first!

    But hey, I'm not psychic and my chrystal ball is murky.
  2. Drewdude91 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2011
    star 2
    Excellent point, but like many of us have said, the prequels were built off of the OT, so the PT would probably have been completely different. It may not have even been called TPM to begin with!!!
  3. MrFantastic74 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2010
    star 4
    You're right. It would have been called "Star Wars". Yes, the product would have looked very different from what we have today, because (you raise a good point) the prequels were built off of the OT. However, I still think that the main plot and the characters would not have struck a chord with the 1977 audience, and there probably would not have been any sequels.
  4. Drewdude91 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2011
    star 2
    Yes, the plot would not have struck a cord if the plot was the same as the PT we have now. However, as I said, since the PT's story was created to be the backstory of the OT, if it came first, it might not have been the backstory. Therefore, it is likely we would have gotten a COMPLETELY different story which may or may not have been a hit with the 1977 audiences. It's all up in the air, just like the original Star Wars movie was.
  5. gobalicious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2010
    star 1
    Better question: What if the OT never existed but TPM was still released as is in 1999. Would Star Wars still be as successful as it is today? Would AOTC and ROTS have been made? If so, would we be clamoring for the sequel to ROTS and a modern OT? How would that OT be different?
  6. MrFantastic74 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2010
    star 4
    I know it seems like I'm always dumping on the PT, especially TPM, but I have to say that if the OT never existed and TPM came out in 1999 as the very first SW movie, the franchise certainly would have had a very short life. It would have been a box office flop, and there definitley would not have been any sequels.

    What kept TPM afloat and paved the way for its sequels was the already massive fanbase for the SW franchise.
  7. Drewdude91 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2011
    star 2
    Yes, if it was based on TPM as it is today. However, the PT was largely based off of and drew from the originals. SInce there would be no OT to base them off of, the PT would have been completely different. Most likely better that the PT we got (although I like the PT actually)
  8. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    Your answer is based upon your personal feelings. In reality, none of us really know. Especially since there are a large number of fans who actually appreciate the PT more than the OT.
  9. Hootini Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2006
    star 2
    If there was no OT and TPM was the first to be released in 1999, I think that it wouldn't have been as scrutinized by fans and moviegoers alike due to it being fresh and not being viewed through the OT glasses. I however feel that it wouldn't have gotten the prestige that the OT got. At the end of the day movies are still products of their time and in the case of the originals, they were WAY ahead of their time and revolutionized the industry forever.

    Still hard to say though and it's actually a really good question and one to think about.
  10. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    If, in the 70's, GL had revised the story to the point where he'd reached the main plot of today's Star Wars Saga and then decided to take it from the beginning, Episode I would obviously have been more like ANH when it comes to scale, FX, action scenes and the like.
    We might have seen three planets, but there would probably have been only two. The film would've had to put a bit more emphasis on the relationships between the characters, because the budget wouldn't have allowed as many, or as intricate, FX shots.
    Episode I would probably also have told us what ANH now tells us about the Jedi and the Force - through a conversation between Obi-Wan and Anakin. Qui-Gon wouldn't have played such a big part (if he'd been in the movie at all).

    I honestly think that Episode I would've been a hit - but maybe not to the huge extent that ANH reached. The only reason for that is that Episode I has a tangible undercurrent of darkness.

    In the second trilogy, Luke would probably not have been trained by two different Jedi Masters. Instead, Obi-Wan would've been with him until the beginning of Episode VI (I base this assumption on what GL says on the audio commentary for ROTJ).
    This means, of course, that Yoda's part in the Saga would've been more or less confined to the first trilogy. Quite possibly, he would've been killed by Palpatine in Episode III, leaving Obi-Wan alone.

    I also think that Han's part in the story would've been either reduced or somehow incorporated into the main plot of the Saga. The same goes for Leia, of course - Her role as Anakin's daughter would've been more important than it is now.

    The final battle would've taken place at Coruscant/Had Abbadon, with the Jedi/Sith confrontation in the Imperial Palace. Would the capital world have been destroyed by the Death Star (which, btw, was not defeated in Episode IV)? Who knows...





    Star Wars - it's a universe of possibilities
    /LM
  11. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    If TPM had been released first, Lucas would now be cleaning the bathroom in a Marin County Burger King.

    May the Pine-Sol be with you!
  12. Jedsithor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2005
    star 4
    If the PT as it exists today had been made first (accounting for vfx advancements), that kiss between Luke and Leia in Empire would be much more awkward. :eek:
  13. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    That certainly is the truth.



    If there was no OT and TPM was the first to be released in 1999, I think that it wouldn't have been as scrutinized by fans and moviegoers alike due to it being fresh and not being viewed through the OT glasses. I however feel that it wouldn't have gotten the prestige that the OT got.

    How do you know that the PT would not have received the same prestige as the OT, if it had been released first? Due to your own feelings about the PT? Is that what you're basing this on?

    Quite frankly, I don't see how anyone would definitely know.
  14. MrFantastic74 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2010
    star 4
    LOL. It's funny cuz it's true.
  15. Drewdude91 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2011
    star 2
    Given that at the time ESB was made, the idea that Leia and Luke were twins was not established or even in the mind of Lucaa, it is likely the kiss would never have happened.
  16. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4


    And you know this . . . how? Because you don't like TPM and the PT as a whole?

    Why do so many of you keep assuming that you know how the PT would have been received if they had been the first movies?
  17. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I tend to disagree. I think Order 66 with OT style troopers could be epic if done properly.
  18. Captain_Cosmos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2011
    star 1
    From what Kurtz has said the PT would've been more like a futuristic King Arthur tale, so my guess it would've been more like Excalibur in space rather than what we got, which wasn't much. In those days Lucas used to listen to the people around him and Kurtz was one of the people who helped out with ideas (he was more of a partner than an employee), so the PT wouldn't have been anything like what we got, especially seeing that it wasn't restricted to a future story.
  19. Grand_Moff_Jawa Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 5

    Search your feelings! You know it to be true!
  20. Bacon164 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    star 7

    If there was no OT and TPM was the first to be released in 1999, I think that it wouldn't have been as scrutinized by fans and moviegoers alike due to it being fresh and not being viewed through the OT glasses. I however feel that it wouldn't have gotten the prestige that the OT got.

    :)
  21. MrFantastic74 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2010
    star 4
    We don't "know". It's just conjecture, which is what this topic is about. It's a "what if" thread. Nobody's a real psychic here and there's no way to know for sure.
  22. Captain_Cosmos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2011
    star 1
    They're saying what if Ep. I was made in 1977, not 1999. What if Ep. I, II & III were made in 77, 80, 83, and Ep. IV, V & VI were made in 99, 02 & 05.
  23. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    From what Kurtz has said the PT would've been more like a futuristic King Arthur tale, so my guess it would've been more like Excalibur in space rather than what we got, which wasn't much. In those days Lucas used to listen to the people around him and Kurtz was one of the people who helped out with ideas (he was more of a partner than an employee), so the PT wouldn't have been anything like what we got, especially seeing that it wasn't restricted to a future story.


    I've got to be honest. I don't miss the idea of the PT being a space age King Arthur tale. I'm pretty satisfied with what Lucas did. And I also believe it's a good thing that in the end, Lucas DID NOT listen to Kurtz.
  24. gobalicious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2010
    star 1
    How do you know you wouldn't like the PT as a space age King Arthur tale? Unless the films were made I don't see how you could possibly know. :) Seriously, it's ok that some are not completely satisfied with the PT or any Star Wars film for that matter. You don't have to defend it at every possible opportunity.
  25. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I don't know what Kurtz would have done to the PT, but if his vision for ROTJ is any indication, I am exceedingly thankful that Lucas didn't listen to him.
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