PT What if Yoda confronted Anakin, and Obi-Wan confronted Palpatine?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Graves101, Apr 14, 2013.

Moderators: Bazinga'd
  1. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    A lot of fans love to believe that Yoda was a lot more powerful than Anakin. Don't they? I keep forgetting that Yoda is one character who is constantly put on a pedestal.
  2. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Not really. The fact is that Anakin wasn't killed because Obi-wan was emotionally compromised and Yoda wasn't. Obi-wan had raised the boy like a son and had bonded with him closely over a dozen years. He even tells Yoda that he should go after Palpatine, but Yoda insists that it has to be him to do it. Because Obi-wan is at a crossroads between his duty and his feelings, he lets Anakin burn instead of putting an end to him. Had Yoda been there, there would have been no conflict and Anakin would be dead now. There would have been an intense fight of the same caliber as what it was with Obi-wan, but the outcome at the end would be different. Yoda would not hesitate and would exploit Anakin's weaknesses intentionally.
  3. dva3842 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Fun thread idea to think about.

    Yoda has too much heart. All the jedi were like his children. Even though I'm sure he knew Anakin had skewered and gutted a lot of the younglings at the temple.
    I'm imagining he would have just force pulled the lightsaber from Anakin's hands with the force (like he did to Ventress' twin sabers. Sidious easily force puppeting Darth Maul around on Mandalor) and then reluctantly tossed Anakin into the lava to become the same old limbless Vader.

    In fact I wish Anakin had fallen into the lava in Ep.III. It would have been more horrific but congruous. . Just looked too easy for Anakin to let Obi-Won slice off his legs in the flip. A force user should be able to block with his saber even in a flip. It just so stupid he couldn't just have hopped onto the "shore". Or at least force pushed Obi-Won backward before leaping onto the ground.

    That said, sure, Anakin would could have put more of a fight to Yoda if he had like 10 more years of training/experience in the force under Sidious/or not. and with his 3 limbs still intact.

    Obi-won vs. Sidious? would have been over right away, just like Dooku force chocked-lifted him in mid-air then slung him. (Obi-wan failed his resistance roll badly like under KOTOR rules)

    And to summarize, the force also works in many other mysterious ways. At the time of Ep. III, clearly the Force was on the dark side's favor. Which leads me to hypothesize Bane's rule of two was also designed not just to cut down the anarchy of betraying Sith, but also to "build up" and consolidate dark side imbalance of the Force for future years.(meaning with so much light side force users outweighing the dual Sith, eventually the Force would tip over to the dark side in one sudden turn)

    Kind of agree Obi-wan was meant to join the voice in his appointed time on the Death Star facing Vader to leave it to Luke. All his luck in the past would lead up to that event in a karmic way.

    And a lot of things escape Yoda. Him not being able to sense through Palaptine's darkside cloud. Always falling to traps like with Dooku's falling column, or Sidious sudden lightning. Yoda is neither a hunter or a dominator, more of a teacher not to mention his size. Anakin would probably have a decent chance of escaping Yoda if he realized he was outmatched and tried to retreat.
  4. Jedi_Jack_17 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2013
    I pr
    i prefer these lines they should have been in the film
  5. Jedi_Jack_17 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2013
    I pr
    i prefer these lines they should have been in the film
  6. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The book does have good lines. And a few extra scenes, compared to the movie.
  7. tejdog1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2008
    star 1
    How about this for a wild idea?
    Without any of Anakin's wild and ridiculous emotions during the Mustufar duel, the combined wisdom of Padme and Yoda serves to douse his rage, and they save him from the Dark Side, 20 some odd years 'early. Meanwhile, Obi-Wan is facing the Sith Master, the one who was indirectly responsible for his beloved Master dying, unleashing a hellish 3 year war on the galaxy, and destroying his brother. Yes folks, Obi-Wan, who used the Dark Side briefly to beat Maul, falls headlong into it against Sidious.

    The OT is now Sidious/Obi vs Yoda/Anakin.
    TKT and Vaapad Master Daeg Tynan like this.
  8. Chewbacca89 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2012
    star 5
  9. tejdog1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2008
    star 1
    The novelization of ROTS is really brilliant, though, it shows Yoda having the epiphany of all epiphanies in his duel with Sidious, which would've never happened if he'd gone up against Anakin. I think that whole section of Yoda realizing where he'd absolutely screwed up... the entire Order, the entire PT era, leads to dispersing the twins in families, and enviroments of love that never would've been accepted by the old order (see Anakin in TPM).

    The scenes on Dagobah in ESB are Yoda toying/testing Luke, he had zero intention of NOT training Luke. I'm of the opinion Yoda was hoping love, Luke's love for his father, could save Anakin, since it was love that doomed him.
    minnishe likes this.
  10. Chewbacca89 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2012
    star 5
    What epiphany did he have. I haven't read that novel yet.
  11. tejdog1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2008
    star 1
    There came a turning point in the clash of the light against the dark.
    It did not come from a flash of lightning or slash of energy blade,
    though there were these in plenty; it did not come from a flying kick or a
    surgically precise punch, though these were traded, too.
    It came as the battle shifted from the holding office to the great
    Chancellor's Podium; it came as the hydraulic lift beneath the Podium
    raised
    it on its tower of durasteel a hundred meters and more, so that it became a
    laserpoint of battle flaring at the focus of the vast emptiness of the
    Senate Arena; it came as the Force and the podium's controls ripped
    delegation pods free of the curving walls and made of them hammers,
    battering rams, catapult stones crashing and crushing against each other
    in
    a rolling thunder-roar that echoed the Senate's cheers for the galaxy's new
    Emperor.
    It came when the avatar of light resolved into the lineage of the Jedi;
    when the lineage of the Jedi refined into one single Jedi.
    It came when Yoda found himself alone against the dark.
    In that lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and blades and
    bashing machines, his vision finally pierced the darkness that had clouded
    the Force.
    Finally, he saw the truth.
    This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi
    Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the
    darkness had ever known . . .
    justdidn'thave
    it.
    He'd never had it. He had lost before he started.
    He had lost before he was born.
    The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a
    thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but
    Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade
    themselves.
    They had become new.
    While the Jedi-
    The Jedi had spent that same millennium training to refight the last
    war.
    The new Sith could not be destroyed with a lightsaber; they could not
    be burned away by any torch of the Force. The brighter his light, the darker
    their shadow. How could one win a war against the dark, when war itself
    had
    become the dark's own weapon?
    He knew, at that instant, that this insight held the hope of the
    galaxy. But if he fell here, that hope would die with him. Hmmm, Yoda
    thought. A problem this is . . .

    ~Matthew Stover, "Revenge of the Sith" novelization
    Chewbacca89 likes this.
  12. Komodo9Joe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2013
    star 1
    Back to the OP, "What if Yoda confronted Anakin and Obi-Wan confronted Palpatine?"

    Clearly, everyone agrees that Obi-Wan dies against Sidious, and as Yoda said, very painfully. After all, Sidious, Dooku, Mace, and Yoda are the most powerful beings in the galaxy (here's some cool looking pics I found of them :cool:):

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    These four are the strongest in the galaxy
    Except for one being: the Chosen One. As I said in the other thread about the most powerful Jedi/Sith: Anakin is the only one who can surpass these four. His victory over Dooku, where he opened himself to the Dark Side, showed that he had finally reached a level that only he could, of unrivaled power. Fighting in the Clone Wars continuously strengthened Anakin, allowing him to fulfill his potential. When he finally turns to the Dark Side, he had reached a point where he was undeniably the most powerful being alive.

    The ROTS book continuously points out just how powerful Anakin has become. Anakin kills Dooku; Mace acknowledges Anakin to be the strongest Jedi alive; after turning to the Dark Side, Anakin evens begin planning to kill Darth Sidious.

    But it's at DRush76 said, with Obi-Wan, Anakin's emotions, particularly his overconfidence, got the best with him. Probably as a result of knowing how powerful he was and how easily he could kill Obi-Wan, Anakin's overconfidence blinded him, making him execute a foolish move that cost him the duel and all his power. But what also allowed Obi-Wan to survive that long was their familiarity with each other's moves, having fought together for so long. Without this, Obi-Wan would have been dead a short while into the duel.

    Anakin would have killed Yoda. I think that Anakin would have been thrilled at the chance of killing the most respected Jedi alive, and this thrill would have allowed him to focus on just killing Yoda and reveling in his unrivaled power. Unlike Obi-Wan, Yoda does not have a long standing history or familiarity with Anakin; the duel would have gone just like Anakin vs Dooku, where Yoda slowly begins to realize just how powerful the boy has become. Yoda would eventually begin to weaken, but Anakin would just continue to become stronger and stronger until he decided to end it and kill the Jedi Master.

    We already saw how Anakin had surpassed Dooku,
    [IMG]
    which means that he had also surpassed Yoda, Mace, and Sidious, reaching a level which only he can stand on. Although, the movie did not get to show us Anakin killing the other three, the ROTS video game did to show what would have happened if Anakin fought Mace Windu and Darth Sidious:



    Anakin killing Mace Windu.



    Anakin killing Darth Sidious(which is what he would shortly set out to do.)

    It's too bad that we never got to see just how powerful he had become because he only held that power for such a short time. But by the time of ROTS, Anakin had become the most powerful being alive.
  13. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Sidious does say during his duel with Yoda that "Darth Vader will become more powerful than both of us."
  14. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    That's the point. Anakin had become so angry, so arrogant in his abilities that he let himself be compromised. He thought that he could jump over Obi-wan and not be hit by him, because of his abilities and because Obi-wan kept hesitating to kill him. He acted foolishly and paid the price for it. That's why he says that he is no longer the learner when next they meet.
  15. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I'm just not certain how long that would have taken. I doubt it would have fit the timeframe permitted by the ROTS alternate ending.
  16. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    Isn't Anakin supposed to be more powerful than anyone else? Only his ability to channel his powers is questionable, due to lack of experience in controlling his emotions?:confused:
  17. DARTHLINK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2005
    star 3
    He is, but because he's so wild and out of control that for all his powers, it's wasted. He's more BANG BANG BANG SMASH rather than keeping calm, controlled, and focused. Only then would he have been powerful.

    Yoda would've demolished Anakin, no question about that. As far as he's concerned (from what I remember) Anakin had always been this unwanted child forced into the Jedi Academy by the dying wishes of Qui-Gon. Way this would turn out, Yoda would be fixing what he thought was a mistake he had made 13 years ago: allowing the wisdom of a dying knight and his headstrong apprentice overshadow his own, the centuries-old Grandmaster Jedi.

    Obi-Wan against Palpatine? I fear it'd be the exact opposite. We see how well Obi-Wan faired against Dooku, haven't we? Obi-Wan would've been slaughtered, and it would be Yoda and the two twins versus a very powerful Sith Lord.

    Could make for an interesting AU fiction.
    Last edited by DARTHLINK, Nov 3, 2013
    MOC Yak Face and Arawn_Fenn like this.
  18. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    He has a higher midichlorian count but that isn't necessarily the same thing as realized power.
  19. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9

    Well, the dark side endings in these types of games are just what-if tales. Not meant to be taken seriously.

    He has the potential to be that powerful, but he's still a ways off mentally. Something that doesn't come until after he's been Vader for a while. Hence he's able to fight Obi-wan and not make the mistakes that he had made before. Hence killing those that he did during the dark times. Hence holding his **** together while fighting Luke until he got hit in the shoulder. You also have to understand that Palpatine is also talking about the dark side of the Force giving Vader unlimited power, once he has achieved mastery of the Sith teachings. Anakin only has knowledge of the Jedi Arts and to the Sith, that is limiting his true potential. If Anakin hadn't be so emotionally compromised in the hallway when Palpatine revealed himself, it would be a whole different ballgame.
  20. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Well, I usually assume them to be at least possible, as in the case of, for example, TFU 2 but in this case I'm not so certain.
  21. HevyDevy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 4
    I always assumed that what the videogame alternate ending implied, is Vader got such a rush from killing Obi-wan, in that uncompromised and focused state he could easilier kill Sidious. Just a thought.
    Last edited by HevyDevy, Nov 4, 2013
  22. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9

    With TFU and its sequel, we know the correct endings based on the novelizations. ROTS, well, I don't have to go there.
  23. Firmus Jagdon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2013
    star 1
    Yoda was nearly killed. Obi Wan would have in a heartbeat...
  24. MOC Yak Face Old Films' Curator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    I'd say Lucas's intention was that Mace, Yoda and Sidious exceeded all others. Obiwan, Anakin and Dooku a little way back. Based on that, the answer to the OP's question is obvious. Net result: two OT characters dead by the end of the PT.
  25. CommanderDrenn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2013
    star 4
    Obi-Wan would die, but Yoda would kill Anakin Skywalker, if it came to that. Then, Yoda would have taken Luke to Dagobah, and trained him as a boy. Then Yoda and Luke would defeat the Empire together, Yoda acting more as a Guru than a warrior.
Moderators: Bazinga'd