What If: Yoda vs. Anakin and Obi-Wan vs. Sidious

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by hansolo_23, Jul 11, 2005.

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  1. joshuavance Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2002
    star 3
    Oh you didn't see Obi-Wan hack that mighty double ended saber in half and kick Maul flat on his back like a two dollar prostitute? I can unequivocally assure you, it's in there.

    You didn't see Obi-Wan hack off TWO of General Grievous' hands after defending rather splendidly against FOUR lightsabers?

    And yeah, I guess it did help Grievous slightly in a mano a' mano fight that he was a ROBOT with super-human strength, I'd say Obi-Wan did pretty damn good even despite that fact, considering he knocked Grievous flat on his back.


    If you are dead, does it really MATTER how someone killed you?

    The point is, all of the Sidious fans severely overestimate Sidious, and severely underestimate Obi-Wan. Here you have all of these hard-hitters, Qui-Gon, Mace, Maul, Dooku, Grievous, etc all waxed and dead. And there is ole Obi-Wan chilling in his crib remembering the good ole days. That speaks volumes as to how powerful Obi-Wan is.
    Obi-Wan doesn't get his respect because he isn't flashy and doesn't showboat. He simply gets the job done.

    And no, I don't feel Obi-Wan could kill Sidious, because only the chosen one can do that, and not even by direct confrontation, but by betrayal from within. My only point is that it is foolish to think a fight between Obi-Wan and Sidious would be as one sided as certain Sidious fans like to think, when everything depicted in the films suggests otherwise.

    Sidious would have to EARN that victory.
  2. Obi-Twice-Kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2003
    star 2
    ^^
    Straight up, brother! Straight up!
  3. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    "You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor," Lucas says. "If Anakin hadn't got all beat up, he could've beat the Emperor."

    --George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 204


    Obi-wan's not in that group. So no matter how good Obi-wan is, he's no match for Palpatine. He was against Anakin because Anakin fought emotionally. Sidious won't. Anakin was prone to making a lot of mistakes. Obi-wan wasn't. Sidious is in full control of his facilities. Anakin wasn't. Palpatine's more experienced than Anakin and Obi-wan.

    Yoda would've fought hard against Anakin and he would've won, barely. But he wouldn't hesitate to kill Anakin.

    As to Darth Maul, Obi-wan got lucky when he broke Maul's saber and kicked him. But Maul recovered and continued to fight until Obi-wan made a mistake. Obi-wan lost that fight because he fought emotionally. He only recovered because he calmed down and used the Force as he should've.
  4. darkscout36 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2005
    star 1

    sorry to be off topic but, in ROTJ, at the near end of the duel between vader and luke, wasn't luke fighting emotionally??? When he was hiding in the shadows, and VAder was like, "if you wont join us, then your sister will" then luke comes out of hiding and yells "NOOO!!!". He unleashes a devastating flurry of attacks that eventually causes vader to lose an arm. Is that not fighting with emotion??? Its not like Luke "lost" to Vader, he stopped because he has composure and knows he'll only become VADER if he kills vader.
  5. joshuavance Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2002
    star 3
    Well Lord Sinister,

    The problem with *Official* Lucas qoutes, (and as much as we would enjoy having a voice of authority on such matters, such as the creator of the series himself), is that Lucas has an uncanny penchant for changing his mind at any given time regarding any given aspect of the saga, and often contradicts himself or contradicts things he plainly spelled out in the films. This needs no examples, as they are plentiful.


    I'll put it this way, if I were a gambling man, and Sidious and Obi-Wan went at it, my money would go on Obi-Wan. Far better odds and the payoff would be out the roof. Sidious is like any other Sith Lord, his overconfidence is his weakness.


    As to Darth Maul, Obi-wan got lucky when he broke Maul's saber and kicked him. But Maul recovered and continued to fight until Obi-wan made a mistake. Obi-wan lost that fight because he fought emotionally. He only recovered because he calmed down and used the Force as he should've.

    What the?? How in the hell is it luck that Obi-Wan hacked Mauls saber in half?? Whatever happened to skill?
    By that reckoning, everything that everyone does in a duel in Star Wars is attributed to luck, right?
    Or, is it just when Obi-Wan does something skillful? Only then is it luck?


    Preposterous.



    Right Darkscout. Emotion is irrelevent. And Anakin wasn't struggling with himself emotionally no matter how people try to justify his loss to Obi-Wan. Are you saying all Sith then have this particular liability? Because that's what they do, they use their Emotion for their strength. Anakin was Darth Vader by the time of the duel. He knew precisely what he wanted. He was trying to KILL Obi-Wan Kenobi. Not thumb wrestle him. If ANYONE had inner conflict during that duel, it was Obi-Wan Kenobi. His brother and student was trying to kill him.
  6. SithOWNtheJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2005
    star 3

    Yoda flees and ObiWan dead or flees. They can do nothing to Sidious and Anakin because Anakin is the chosen one
  7. yaddidameen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2005
    star 3
    josh, you seem very biased towards obi wan (big suprise). maul outfought obi wan, surely you can see this. obi wan won the duel, through a mixture of maul's own overconfidence and obi wan finally calming down and letting the force flow through him. bottom line is that maul had the chance to kill obi wan, but chose to gloat instead of taking the chance to kill obi wan. surely you can see this.

    yes obi wan outfought GG when it comes to saber ability, yes he took off two of the General's hands, yes he has four sabers, so? GG still isn't force sensative, you make it sound like sidious would have some sort of trouble against GG, i can ASSURE you that sidious would have a far easier time with GG than obi wan did, I CAN ASSURE YOU. force ability GG is no match either. it seems as if you forgot how GG threw obi wan across the platform and had obi wan dangling from the ledge. did you see that obi wan resorted to using a blaster to kill the General?

    If you are dead, does it really MATTER how someone killed you?

    if you are trying to argue a certain characters skill, then yes it matters very much. if it doesn't matter how the job gets done, then why don't you give all that credit to palpatine/sidious for killing mace, after all we should forget how it happened and only look at the result. what about the fact that sidious killed more jedi in seconds than obi wan managed to do throughout his entire life. now many sith did obi wan kill? 1, oh yes that's right. how many jedi did sidious kill? what was that? four and one sith, 5, yup sure did.

    obi wan took out the chosen one before he became all powerful, obi wan took out maul and GG as well. let's look at sidious' accomplishments, sidious kills mace (doesn't matter how, remember?) he kills Agen Kolar, Saesee Tiin, and Kit Fisto. that FOUR jedi! WOWEEE!!! not only that he manages to kill the chosen one with lightning that wasn't even directed at anakin in the first place. WOULD YOU LOOK AT THAT, SIDOUS DOES WHAT OBI WAN DIDN'T HE KILLS THE CHOSEN ONE, (dying in the process, but still, that speaks loads for his power, killing someone without even aiming at that person.)

    so i ask you what in the films makes you think that obi wan would stand half a chance against sidious, because ALL evidence points to sidious owning obi wan HARD. have you forgotten dooku? what about GL quotes? Gillard? YODA's own words from the movie "TO FIGHT THIS LORD SIDIOUS, STRONG ENOUGH YOU ARE NOT." what, is yoda wrong? I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW HOW YODA COULD BE WRONG ABOUT OBI WAN, seeing how he spo
  8. yaddidameen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2005
    star 3
    in the end of ROTS who chopped up "the CHOSEN ONE", that's right it was obi wan. anakin would have been beaten by yoda after a hard fought battle, sidious would have killed obi wan. then we would be right back to sidious vs yoda, with sidious winning again.
  9. Ruthio Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 2
    What does gambling have to do with it. lucas could of made a scene showing sidious zapping obi-wan. Lucas is the odds and he is the Luck, anything a chaarcter does is cause he wants them to do it. Their are not bets involoved...Lucas is the one who controls it all. Since Lucas has said repeadlty Kenobi couldnot take sidous..why not leave it at that? Kenobi cannot beat all...like you seem to think. Sidious is just more powerful....just ask yoda who could not take him and yoda is the most powerful jedi and smartest. Kenobi is a greatt jedi, but to say he can take on sidious while he could not even handle Douku [in a solo and double duel] is insane.
  10. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    does anyone think that sidious was really that impressive as a fighter?

    Absolutely. He's killed three of the finest Jedi Masters in less than 10 seconds and is one of only four characters ranked as a level 9 swordsman. His force powers are better than anyone else's, especially the lightning. McDiarmid said that he appears to be the fastest swordsman in the galaxy, that he fights at twice the speed of light if not sound, and he is 500 times better than a Jedi Master. Gillard said Sidious' abilities are beyond anything we've seen, that you're a sucker if you think you can get the better of him, and that he's better than Yoda. Obi-Wan would obviously be no match for him. He would probably get killed by a lightsaber just as quickly as Mace's posse or we would simply be electrocuted to death. Lucas said you have to be Mace and Yoda can compete with the Emperor. Obi-Wan isn't even as powerful as Yoda, Mace, or Anakin, so he's nowhere near the Emperor's level. If Yoda fought Anakin, he would probably win since the OS says Yoda was the second most powerful force user after the Emperor. Especially since Obi-Wan (who is less powerful than Anakin) managed to defeat Anakin using intelligence and experience, I'm sure Yoda could defeat him with even more ease since he's wiser, more powerful, and more experienced than Kenobi.
  11. Chosen_One1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2005
    star 4
    I think some people are forgetting that a large part of why Obi-Wan prevailed against Anakin was because he knew him so well. Nick Gillard said that Obi-Wan lasted as long as he did because he was familiar with Anakin. Obi-Wan isn't familiar with Sidious and he's nowhere near as powerful. Obi-Wan would get owned.

    Anakin and Yoda would be an amazing fight. Anakin wouldn't be as emotional and Yoda wouldn't be familiar with how he fights. In my opinion it would be a toss up.
  12. Shiphunk2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2005
    star 4
    Yoda would have given Anakin a whoopin and put him back in Juvey. Sidious would have pissed Obi-Wan off so much that he would be his new apprentice!! :)
  13. -maynard- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2005
    star 3
    i disagree, but it was a nice write-up about Obi-Wan.

    off topic, its kinda funny and kinda sad how pathetic Anakin becomes as Vader. hes haunted by Obi-Wan for 20 years. Then Obi-Wan shows up at his doorstep a haggard old man. Vader thinks he will finally get his revenge and right before he can land the death blow, Kenobi disappears on him...LOL, sucker!

  14. yaddidameen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2005
    star 3
    a toss up? how do you figure? anakin and obi wan were at a draw during their force battle, anakin never demonstrates any superior force abilities, in what way could anakin have beaten yoda? yoda has anakin beat at every turn, the only chance anakin has is to give it his all, fully emersing himself in the darkside, and even then it wouldn't be enough. anakin had the potential to dwarf every single being in the starwars galaxy, but he doesn't. yoda wins after a nice struggle, but he DOES win, most certainly.

    i agree with you, anakin's loss to obi wan, could be pinned on anakin's overconfindence and obi wan's ability. in my mind there is no doubt as to who was more talented, but i believe that obi wan knew him too well for anakin to defeat.

    obi wan dies fast, anakin gives yoda one hell of a fight but ultimately fails, and is killed.
  15. Alixen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2003
    star 4
    Look, this isnt something any side of the argument is going to win.

    One of GL's quotes and one of Gillards quites say Anakin is the most powerful Jedi in the Galaxy, along with the book, has Obi-Wan on the run the entire fight which he does, and that Anakin only loses because of his overconfidence, the same reason Maul lost.



  16. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    One of GL's quotes and one of Gillards quites say Anakin is the most powerful Jedi in the Galaxy, along with the book

    Do you have a copy of the GL quote that says that? I know Lucas has said Anakin had the potential to become twice as powerful as the Emperor, but I think he hadn't reached that potential by ROTS yet. I also saw a quote from the Just the Facts section on theforce.net that said the Emperor and Yoda were the two greatest wizards of the force. However, I remember in the novelisation the Emperor calls Anakin the greatest Jedi and Mace says Anakin is arguably the most powerful Jedi.
  17. DS_Emp_Viper Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2001
    star 4

    Hmm you keep talking about the disrespect of Mauls lightsaber, yet you seem to forget that Obi-Wans own lightsaber is kicked down a shaft. I wonder what would have happened if Qui-Gon had been killed in another room? Oh ya Obi-Wan would be dead.

    And Anakin was NOT in control of his emotions against Obi-Wan, he had to many emotional factors going for him, A. He wanted to make sure Obi-Wan did not take his wife. B. Master-Apprentice relashionship made Anakin want to prove himself. C. Anakin is so corrupted by the darkside he wildly hacks away at everything.

    While if you take a more controlled palpatine who picks his strikes much better, which is one of the reasons Obi-Wan always gets owned by Dooku, is because instead of just trying an all out assault, they pick and choose stratigic places to attack.

  18. Chosen_One1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2005
    star 4


    Anakin is crazy powerful after he goes dark side and I believe he is easily on par with Yoda. As I said Obi-Wan lasted as long as he did because he knew Anakin so well. Anakin wouldnt be overconfident against Yoda and his emotions wouldnt be so messed up.

    Regarding the force push, I think it looked like a tie because they were so close together. It was like a mini force explosion which sent them both back(the same thing happened with Yoda and Sidious).
  19. joshuavance Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2002
    star 3
    Look people, it's simple. No further in-depth analysis necessary to compound a rather simple outcome.

    Obi-Wan beats the Chosen One, then goes and beats Sidious, then when Yoda runs his mouth, he kills Yoda, resurrects Dooku, put's him back down, goes on to fight Johnny Cage, Kitana, finally dueling to the death with Shang Tsung. Kills him with a babality, then winks at the camera for having decieved the whole universe as to his true motives and allegiance: himself.
  20. igiveup Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2005
    as much as I think Obi-Wan is one of the greatest Jedi-he defeated Maul, Grievous, etc. he got owned by Dooku twice whereas Anakin kicks Dooku's ass the 2nd time showing he has progressed into being capable of handling stronger Sith foes than Obi-Wan, Yoda even tells Obi-Wan that he can't defeat Sidious when Obi-Wan suggests he not go to face Anakin, Yoda really blew it against Sidious when he dropped his saber and lost the high ground after overpowering Sidious with his own lightning so Obi-Wan would definitely lose to Sidious
  21. yaddidameen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2005
    star 3
    where is your evidence to support this? easily on PAR with YODA!!!!! we have been in on some great discussions chosen one1, hell we've been on the same side more often than not, you have gained my respect, but i must respectfully disagree with you. the bottom line is that anakin and obi wan were equal during their force encounter, just like sidious vs yoda, the end result was a tie. yoda is more powerful than anakin during ROTS, anakin did not demonstrate any type of superb force abilities, while yoda on the other hand managed to absorb/deflect lightning back at his opponent. based on evidence from the films, one cannot logically believe anakin would come out on top in this one.
  22. AUSSIETROOPER20 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2004
    star 3
    I think Obi-Wan would have defeated sidious since he wanted to kill him alot, and yoda would have beaten vader on mustafar quicker and faster.

    Obi-wan would have used his lightsaber cause he knew how sith lords fight and how the emperor would fight since he's been close to him befor and he would have blocked the electric bolts back to palpatine to make him weaker and Obi-wan would have fought bravely.=D=
  23. joshuavance Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2002
    star 3
    Huh. Honest simplicity Aussietrooper, you can't beat that I suppose. Far superior to most of our essay length intellectual saber rattling.


    I personally think the key would be at what point in Obi-Wan's life he faced Sidious.

    TPM Padawan Obi-Wan. No. All raw talent and not as much wisdom or experience.

    AOTC Knight Obi-Wan. No. Good saber skills, better wisdom and experience, not quite enough though.

    ROTS Master Obi-Wan. Closer. Impenetrable skills with a saber. Far greater wisdom and experience. Still lacking a bit in the Force though.

    I'd say realistically probably 5 or 6 years after ROTS. Slightly closer to the ANH Ben Kenobi. Since we know Ben was Yodas equal at that point (because much like Yoda percieved order 66 from across the galaxy, and Old Ben percieved Alderaans destruction, Bens Force perception increased incredibly between III and IV ) I'd say Obi-Wan's best shot would be during the interim between films. While he still has some youthful vigor left. Though age is irrelevant as the Prequel Trilogy has demonstrated. Perhaps Obi-Wan at 50 years of age.
  24. yaddidameen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2005
    star 3
    so joshuavance yoda's own words, GL direct quotes, dooku's handling of obi wan twice, isn't enough to sway you? is there anything that will convince you that obi wan just isn't in sidious' league?

    you've gone from believing obi wan could take sidious, to saying he couldn't, to saying that he could do so 5 or 6 years after ROTS. which one is it?

    TPM obi wan- not a chance in hell.

    AOTC obi wan- not chance in hell.

    ROTS obi wan- lasts about 5 minutes longer, still not a chance in hell.

    inpenetrable lightsaber skill? where was that against dooku? lightsaber skill is only part of the battle, sidious has obi wan dominated in force ability.

    where is your evidence to support your theory that obi wan could have taken sidious 5 or 6 years after ROTS? what does he do? show me a place in the films where obi wan demonstrates superior force ability than he did in ROTS. are there any quotes from GL to support you theory?

    i would love to hear your replies to the points i have made previously on this very page. i am interested in hearing your response.
  25. Boba-Fettuccine Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 1
    anakin would end up the same but with a broken spleen, obi wan would've been killed cuz sidious would somehow cheat. then yoda would come and beat the crap outta sidious and stab vader right through the front of his mask. THANK YOU, AMSTERDAM, GOODNIGHT!
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