What is a Force Heretic *spoilers . . . maybe*

Discussion in 'Literature' started by JediLaw, Nov 10, 2001.

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  1. ShinagamiWing Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2001
    star 4
    Your defenition of Heretic is ot of whack.

    Islam was founded by a man worshiped the God of Abraham in a different way. He was a heretic. Does that mean that he disagreed fundamentally with the principles of Judaism? No.
  2. Mira_McGrath Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2001
    star 1
  3. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    Muhammed wasn't a Heretic to God.

    He was called a Heretic.

    However he had no fundemental differences between Judaism's heart and the worship of God.

    Same for Buddah and Hinduism save Buddah said there was an escape from reincarnation.

    (That's not a fundemental part)

    Same with Jesus and Judaism.

    Your confusing society's anger with manifestations of a religion's core precepts.

    A heretic is like I said a Jedi and a Sith or in the Real World's case...

    The Cathar Heresay which believed Jesus was actually not human, God wasn't the God of the Old testament, and that World itself was Evil.

    Which contradicted the essential part of Christianity

    A:) God was a man and God in unity
    B:) Jesus's God was the God of Abraham
    C:) The world is a Good place and not a horror

    Why the actual doctrine must be looked at is because ironically of the Catholic Church's response to the heresay (among other things)

    The Inquisition when torture was advocated and death was heretical against Christianity's message of love and peace.

    While no one called them heretics, they were.

    Same as if a Jedi used the Dark Side yet became leader of the Jedi
  4. JWK Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2000
    star 4
    The last book is titled 'Reuion' I belive. They all start with R if I remember right.

    Purhaps a Jedi goes away and does some thing that go agaist the 'Jedi Code', perhaps read some of those old sith teaching, or something. We read about their struggles for 3 books and in the final one the Jedi are finally united in one cause and one group.
  5. amarice77 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 1
    Hey Charlemange19!!! You may be on to something here about a ressurrected Anakin. Given that the Vongs are really good with cloning and other specific 'alterations"..in the form of shapers...maybe they could re-do a whole new Anakin...like how they previously planned to do with tahiri. Or could it be that the death of Anakin affected Tahiri so much to the extend that it disillusioned her and she leaves the Jedi Order and starts up her very own cult? I think one of you guys mentioned about Tahiri's mental/emotional state earlier.
  6. ShinagamiWing Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2001
    star 4
    Disclaimer: I don't thing religion is great, but faith is the greatest thing there is. If a religion is your way to it, more power to you; just play nice with the other religions. :D

    Low blow. The Cathars were exterminated by the Templars for their supposed crimes, yeah, but just becasue they weren't an agreement with the main principles of Christianity doesn't mean that they weren't christians, or good people. Now, the Templar, there were some jerks. Why kill the Cathars? They were poets and philophers of the highest caliber, and their only crime was that they didn't dwell on the simple rules and boundaries of the world they believed to be one grand sin, and believed in two gods, one good and one evil. But they were taken down anyway, because they were branded as heretics. You're right, that was a social thing, because the templar were greedy buttheads. But it was borne of their religious fervor.

    Oh, right, back to SW. :D

    So, anyway, what I mean is that different breeds of one thing are not heretics to each other. A Jew is not a heretical Muslim. A Christian is not truly a heretical Jew (anymore, but I'll get to that...). A Buddhist, I assure you, is NOT a heretical Hinduist. I'm a Jew, but I still hold to the manifestation of bhraman through "devine" beings. Now, Jedi and Sith are just sects of monotheism, just like Muslims, Jews, Christians and the Hindu. They''re constantly fighting each other because of the same reasons that everyone else who subscribes to an intolerant religion (most of them) does.

    Recent events and many more throughout the ages show us that religions, which are all essentially te same thing - a set of morals - fight each other for slight differences in their moral codes, these being ones that wer often supposedly ones given to them by all-powerful beings. (Great way to make everyone think you're right, huh? "Either you subscribe to my moral codes, or something relly big and bad will punish you for eternity!" And it worked!)

    The Force is just another faith - but like monotheism, it has its sects. Jedi and Sith. Those who can manipulate the Force find themselves adhiring to different codes - some of power overwhelming, some of righteousness undying. But are either heretics to society? Some time before that, many aeons ago, the Sith were revolutionary, power-hungry force users. But then they became accepted as "just different". Well, bad, but still just different. Because the society that once thought of them as complete traitors to their own cause.

    The very same could be said of today's Christians. Once upon a time, only a few Jews believed that Jesus of Nazareth was the scion of Yaweh. They were heretics at the time... but these days, they're just different ways of doing the same things. At least, that's how it ought to be, but some people would have it otherwise.

    What Force Heretic may be about is another new presence, another new way of undrstanding the Force... maybe something that's just about tolerance, a middle path... like Siddartha said.

    Kay, come on, psent your side. I haven't debated this well in weeks. ;)
  7. DVader316 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2000
    star 7
    Regardless of who or what a Force Heretic may be, this trilogy is going to be awesome. Sean Williams and Shane Dix are two great writers who will hopefully put their personal stamp on the NJO with their excellent writing. If anyone is curious to see what I mean, check out their Evergence trilogy. After reading it (it was great)I am now more convinced than ever that these two authors are perfect for SW, and more specifically, the tone of the NJO.
  8. ShinagamiWing Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2001
    star 4
    You're right; enough argument. Whatever happens, let's just hope we love these books. We'll find out what a Force heretic is then...
  9. NarundiJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 6
    See, the way I see it is that you can either have it one way or the other. If Kyp is the force heretic then you'll have to deal with having a book about him :p That would be just great for me because I like Kyp, but I've heard a lot of people say that they'd stop reading the NJO if there was a book about him. Still, you'd get the satisfaction of having him labeled as a heretic, which could be a good or bad thing in actuality, but in this context it's probably bad. AND they might just kill him off in that book if it happens to be about him. Once again, something that I hope DOESN'T happen.

    So, which is better? Having Kyp labeled as a heretic and being killed in a book all about him, or having a book about one of the Solo kids or another character being the heretic and not having Kyp in it? My vote goes for the Solo kids anyway because I think there's still some chance that Jacen could have further philosophical debate or revelations. Tell me what you guys think :)

    Jae Angel
  10. JediLaw Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 3
    THis is wha I think will happen, but hopefully I am wrong.

    Ok, we have a book called Force Heretic. If any of you haven't noticed, except for the hardcovers, the NJO books have had some pretty lame titles. My personal favorites so far are the stackpole duology. But 'ruin'? 'dark tide'? I think that the authors can do better than that?

    Force heretic could refer to all of the wonderful things that have already been talked about here. But in all likelihood it will be about a jedi falling to the dark side.

    I think one of the coolest EU book titles is 'splinter of the minds eye' . . . just makes me want to pick it up and read it!
  11. Vergere Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2000
    star 5
    i like the titles just fine. they pertain to the book, and that's what titles are meant to do. i'd rather see nicer covers on ppbs than titles :)


    back on topic...i don't think anyone brought this up, but remember in RP(i think it was that book) the Penitent was mentioned. that was a section of Jedi that defied the council, but didn't completely go dark side(i don't think anyway). the Penitent would be a prime example of a heretic group.
  12. JediLaw Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 3
    Vergere:

    Please tell me how 'Conquest' and 'Rebirth' pertain to their respective stories? Now, don't get me wrong, I loved the books, but the titles just seem to be generic sci fi booktitles.

    That's why I say that force heretic will be about about a fallen jedi.
  13. DVader316 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2000
    star 7
    "Please tell me how "Conquest" and "Rebirth" pertain to their respective stories ? Don't get me wrong, I loved the books, but the titles seem to be just generic scifi book titles."


    Well, JediLaw, the titles are appropriate to the story content, at least in my opinion. "Conquest" obviously refers to the Vong continuing their advance into the Core, not only soundly defeating the NR but, honestly,kicking their asses. Or, the conquest could refer to the conquest of Yavin and the Jedi Academy. Id consider that a conquest of major proportions.
    As for Rebirth, I think that title is more straight forward, and again, pertitnent to the novels content. Even though the Jedi faced the destruction of their Academy and the occupation of Yavin 4, as well as the continuing loss of life for both the Jedi and the NR, their is still a glimmer of hope. The birth of Ben Skywalker could be viewed as a rebirth for the Jedi (more specifically Mara after the recession of her illness) and the NR. He is literally a beacon of hope, or a rebirth of hope, in a time of tragedy and horror.
  14. Vergere Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2000
    star 5
    what he said. a title does not have to be literally interpreted to pertain to the plot.
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