DFW, TX What is it with people thinking Padme will die in Episode III?

Oh, I have been on this thread were, except for a few lovely people, have been the *only* one saying that Padme will not die in Episode III. Does anyone agree? If so, please back me up on this thread:

http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=11314484&page=1

I think I began arguing my point around page 3 - and continue to do so on page 5. Oh, it's so frustrating, lol.

 

Padme is toast...right after them little jedis come out

 

I don't think she will die either, but I can't go post on that board. I have a personal rule that I don't post on any other JC board aside from this one (the DFW board). I hate all of the JC boards and only come to even this one just because it is pertinent to our group.

 

Yep, I know what you mean. I won't be posting for much longer on that board - at least when factual news about Episode III begins to pour out. I want to remain as spoiler free as possible so I can enjoy the movie more.

 

Oh yeah... the spoilers would be another reason for not posting on the JC.

My main reason is simple: The JC sux! It's full of a bunch of arrogant dorks who hide behind internet anonymity to assert an assumed authority in a way to make themselves feel better about who they really are. Much the same way cops hide behind badges and compensate for their "shortcomings" with a big gun.

Hmmm, perhaps I should stop there...

 

Yup, the JC sucks. I never go there.

And after her horrendous performance in Episode II, I hope for nothing more than a vicious death in the third film.

Now, in all seriousness, I genuinely believe she will die, or at least Anakin will believe her to be dead. I think that her death (perceived or actual) is absolutely essential for what has to happen to Anakin.

You see, Anakin's ability to do good is directly related to those he loves. In Ep. I, we have a perfect little boy that absolutely adores his mother. He gets taken away from her, but soon replaces her with Qui-Gon. He's able to do this because he knows his mom will be okay.

However, Qui-Gon is killed and Anakin is then looked after by Obi-Wan, a man who he does grow to love and see as a father type figure, but he knows that Obi-Wan does not trust him, and never really wanted him in the first place. Hints of rebellion begin to form in his mind, and he starts to lose the ability to trust.

Now, in Episode II, his mother dies and he begins his real descent into the Dark Side.

With each person's death that he cares about, he cares less and less. When Padme dies, it will be the final straw, because at that point, he will have nothing but hate to live for.

Now, this is his fatal flaw as a villian. When Obi-Wan shows up in Episode IV, this disturbs Anakin. He's getting stirrings of old memories and he doesn't much like it, I would imagine. So, he goes out and quickly ends Kenobi's life. Problem solved, right?

Then he finds out about his son. Now, a very battered, small part of him recognizes his redemption, but his conscious mind doesn't realize this yet. Instead, he decides to rationalize on why he should keep this boy around. If he were as clinically detatched as he would have liked to believe at that point, it wouldn't have happened that way--he would have recognized Luke as a danger and simply had him killed. But he rationalizes it enough so that Luke can survive and grow strong enough to face him. And we know what happens at that point.

Anyway, my point is that Anakin's goodness is directly related to those he loves. As those people disappear, he becomes evil. Therefore, I think it is absolutely essential that Padme die in Episode III, or he must believe she has.

And the part of me that wants retribution really wants to see her die too.

 

I don't doubt that Anakin will think she's dead. But I also don't think that she will actually die (no matter how much I too would love to see her terrible death).

Maybe Portman will die in a car crash (al la Princess Di) and Lucas and team can just recreate her digitally. After seeing Golum and Yoda, I'm sure they can give her more depth and emotion than she brought to the character of Padme in EP2.

 

Let's give the paparazzi a call and make it happen, yo.

 

of course she won't die. for some reason, i remember, either i remember or i'm going crazy, leia saying she briefly remembered her mother from when she was very young and i mean most people can't remember anything before they're at least two years old, so i say anakin's gonna think she's dead, but she's so incredibly not gonna die in ep 3 for cryin out loud.

 

I don't know, it's makes sense for Padme to eat it...

What's the justification for Padme living?

I's confused

 

At the risk of being viciously attacked, I'm going to defend Portman's acting. She's a good actress - it's a natural talent. You cannot have seen The Professional and tell me otherwise.

Honestly, let's look at the dialogue they had to work with and cut them some slack.

After the, although it be harsh, stupidity I witnessed on that board - I think I'll stay away from it.

Oh my dear Threep - forever my own personal devil's advocate. I suppose, technically, there's no reason for her to be alive at the end of Episode III, other than the fact that Lucas has stated that you will not see the twins until the end nor Vader - quite a short amount of time to show all these pivotal moments. Also, Leia's quote, which by the way, provides the only factual information we have.

And most importantly, I personally feel it's infinitely more tragic for her to realize her husband has abandoned her, or even to think he's died, then to have to give her son away to protect him, therefore losing him as well, all this within a very short amount of time. No wonder she was sad. For her to die of a broken heart is much more tragic, and better written in my opinion. People argue that we *have* to know Padme's exact fate - I argue that we don't. I think that her future death of a broken heart can be alluded to but not made blatantly obvious. Sometimes the most powerful stories are ones where each person can take away something for themselves.

 

To start with, please don't ever hesitate to post on our boards... we won't (usually) attack you, without a very good reason.

As for Portman, I think she CAN be a wonderful actress. The Professional is one of my favorite movies of all time. And that goes for the performances of Jean Reno, Gary Oldman, AND Natalie Portman in that movie. BUT although she had some crappy dialog to work with in EP2, it is her delivery of said lines that I would attack. Any good actor/actress WHO CARES about their performance can turn even the worst dialog into great art.

Look at the dialog that Gollum had in The Two Towers (especially the scene where he argues with himself). Those lines could VERY EASILY have sounded like cheesy crap if not for the delivery that Andy Serkis made. It took me 2 or 3 viewings of EP2 just to get the intention or meaning of some of what Portman was trying to say... especially the scene on the chariot just before they're paraded out into the arena. She makes pauses in mid-sentance where there shouldn't be any. She just seems bored or distracted (or completely uncaring) throughout the entire film. I just watched EP1 the other day and she was so much more alive in that one even than she was in EP2. Again, that's what I'm critical of.

As for Padme's death, I personally don't think she will die. I don't think there will be time in the film. I doubt that EP3 will jump far enough into the future to show her death while Leia is a child old enough to remember her mother. That being said, there are two factors that will affect whether we see her death or not.

Factor A- How far we jump through the timeline at the end of EP3. Will we just see the appearance of the suit of armor known as Darth Vader and then the splitting up of the twins and the heros, presumably leaving Padme with Leia on Alderaan, Yoda on Dagobah, and Obi-Wan (Ben) with Luke on Tatooine? To keep with the continuity of the established story, the only way to see Padme's death would be to jump forward into the future, and there's no real reason to do so (story wise). We know she's dead by EP4. We know it's probably not by Vader's fist, or else he probably would have know about Leia.

Factor B- Will Lucas keep to the established continuity? He has already proven himself to not care so much with the continuity from the old trilogy as long as it suits his whims... especially for half-cocked comments like "There you will find Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me." Hello?? Earth to Lucas? How did Qui-Gon fit in there again?? Applying that same logic to Leia's comment to Luke on the bridge in EP6, Lucas could easily choose to just ignore it or forget it happened.

So again, I support you in that I don't think she'll die, but there really is no logic behind Lucas' decision making process regarding the new movies. Midichlorian-said-what??


Oh, and again... the JC SUX!!

 

Can Portman act? Obviously, although I believe it's more from a director forcing it out of her rather than any innate talent of her own. And Lucas cares so little for performances that he's not going to take the time to get anything out of her. He's much too busy making sure Yoda's eyebrows are just right.

However, like Mike said, she was terrible in Episode II. She delivered the lines like she was bored and embarassed to be there. She turns her nose up at the entire SW saga and it bleeds over into her work. In my opinion, she's a spoiled, un-professional (pun intended), brat.

And yes, I do believe we have to know how she dies. I don't buy the broken heart thing because she has children. No parent would simply let themselves wither away and die when their children still need protecting (especially in Luke and Leia's case).

And on another note, Portman's performance in Ep. II didn't give me any reason to believe she was in love with Anakin, so I highly doubt she could pull off being so broken hearted by him that it would kill her.

I will be horribly disappointed if there is no explanation as to why she died. She will still be (character-wise), no older than early thirties when she dies, so natural causes won't work. With children as special and important as hers, she would NEVER allow anything to happen to them, and would die to defend them. What I hope is that Episode III spans a few years time until Leia is at least one and a half to two years old, so that it would be conceivable that she might have a vague recollection of her, and we could see how Padme meets her end.

But I stand by my point. She has to die, and it has to be explained. No one dies of a broken heart when they have something to live for (children that are the hope of the galaxy). And she's too young to die of anything other than violence. I don't believe Anakin will kill her, but she needs to be killed by someone.

Of course, Lucas could always do things to this that I won't like, and I will then curse his name. But that's just me.

 

As far as Factor A is concenrned: I've read in interviews with several cast and crew members and even Lucas himself that you'll see Vader within the last five minutes of the film - so to put all those pivotal scenes at the very end would be difficult.

As far as Factor B is concerned: Yes, Qui-Gon was a whammy, however, it did not mess up the continuity. Obi-Wan we know tells Luke things, "from a certain point of view", and Yoda did train him for the first twelve years of his life, and when Obi-Wan finally gets the opportunity to train Luke - Yoda is the only other Jedi alive. Obi-Wan doesn't like to relive the past - only when pressed, only when Luke is literally their only hope, does Obi-Wan bring up the past (see Dagobah scene right after Yoda dies). So, the character of Qui-Gon was an addition and didn't screw up continuity. In order to do that, Yoda could not have trained him at all, and in reality Yoda trained him for about as long (maybe a year shorter) than Qui-Gon.

And I'm sorry, there's only so much you can do with cliched dialogue. Liam Neeson even had a difficult time - and his Episode I performance certainly wasn't his best. It's like Jake Lloyd in Episode I, whose performance wasn't all that great, however how many ways can you say "Yippee!" and make it believable?

Lucas had great script doctors and writers on the first three, and Johnathan Hale certainly didn't help *enough* on the second one - he may have made it worse, I dunno.

 

Personally, I thought Liam Neeson as Qui-Gon is the best new character from the prequels. I thought he brought such coolness and dignity to that role. However, as much as I like the character, he still doesn't fit in.

Lucas decided he wanted a Qui-Gon character because he forgot that Yoda was supposed to have trained Obi-Wan. And he put the scene in Episode II of Yoda teaching the children because someone probably told him later, "Uh, George, you messed up there."

It just felt tacked on and like he was trying to justify his mistake. Honestly, I don't believe he gives that much thought to the nuances of the story.

And I agree that we probably won't see what happens to Padme because Lucas doesn't pay attention as much as he should. It will probably end up being one of many plot holes that is never resolved. I simply want to see what happens to her, and I think it's a mistake not to show it.

It really makes me wonder how the prequels would have turned out if Lucas had simply written the first draft of the scripts and turned it over to Lawrence Kasdan to write the final draft. And, of course, to get some other director for the filming. Lucas still could have overseen the films and pretty much directed all of the FX sequences (what he does best), but he should have left the characterizations and actors to people that actually know what they're doing.

 

"Lucas still could have overseen the films and pretty much directed all of the FX sequences (what he does best), but he should have left the characterizations and actors to people that actually know what they're doing."

And to that I say "Amen!" lol.