What is Mace Windu´s purpose in the saga?

My apologies for the double-post, but I found the thread mentioned above:

Here it is - it's in the AOTC forum


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Consider the following.

1) In Episode III, the Jedi will fall.

2) To see the Jedi Order fall, and the Jedi getting wiped out, we need a figurehead who can be killed, signalling the end of the Jedi and the beginning of the Sith's empire.

3) That Jedi can't be Yoda, because he's still alive in the OT.

4) Palpatine's power lies in manipulating others through their fear, anger etc.

5) Yoda is head of the Jedi Order, but Mace is the most powerful (Evidence: when Anakin is bigging up Obi Wan, saying he is "As wise as Master Yoda and as powerful as Master Windu".)

6) Power is linked to the Dark Side of the Force...

Sam Jackson has said he "doesn't want to go out like a ****".

I think he's going to go out in true style, in an awesome demonstration of Palpatine's immense dark side power...

 

Agreed, although I would take anything Anakin says with a grain of salt. Or rather, 4363.8 grains to be precise.

I think his reference to Yoda and Windu was a metaphor to describe how he felt about Obi-Wan, not a literal reference to their respective powers.

Yoda IS the most powerful ("Even a higher count than Master Yoda!" - TPM), but his look and demeanor conjure up images of a wise old man.

Mace is wise as well (although some would dispute this, you can't become #2 b/c of Form VII alone), but his demeanor is all about kicking ass and taking names.

Sorry for being so pedantic.

Mace symbolizes, as an individual, what the Jedi Order is like:

Certain when one should not be certain ("We will not train the boy" "Count Dooku could not murder someone", etc.).

Arrogant and removed, yet compassionate and concerned at the same time.

Aware and yet clueless.

Powerful and yet powerless.

When Mace falls, we will see the fall of the Jedi.

 

>>>>I think his reference to Yoda and Windu was a metaphor to describe how he felt about Obi-Wan, not a literal reference to their respective powers.

Well, he was talking about Obi Wan, but I think it tells us something about Mace and Yoda too. I mean, you wouldn?t say someone was ?as strong as Britney Spears and as beautiful as Mike Tyson?, if you were talking about how great they were, would you?

>>>>Yoda IS the most powerful ("Even a higher count than Master Yoda!" - TPM)

I don?t think Yoda is the most powerful, and I don?t think midichlorians are related to power.

>>>>Mace symbolizes, as an individual, what the Jedi Order is like: [?] When Mace falls, we will see the fall of the Jedi.

Very true?

 

I agree, random nerd.

And maybe in a prior era Yoda was known as the most powerful, but it seems that his responsibilities do not lie in the Kick*** department.

That said, I did want to comment on a few previous posts, summed up in this one:

GL knew he had to have a black guy in each trilogy or he'd be bashed as a racist, much like the LOTR trilogy is being bashed. Jessie Jackson and the rainbow coalition was twisting his arm. The least GL could do was give Mace some personality. Lando was a pimp, Mace is a stiff

Just because Sam doesn't get much screen time, he is a stiff? Sam plays Mace as a strong, empowered character. Why is it that when we see a positive black character (who is more than just comic relief) we instintly assume that the characters existance is due to pressure or arm bending, as opposed to an intentional decision. Does the idea of an empowered black man scare you so? True that it is not seen very often in our media, but does it have to stay that way?

If my post angers you at all, take this challenge: go watch "Bamboozled" by spike lee. You will never view our media the same...

sorry for the topic diversion, but I thought it was worth commenting on.

 

But as you are a Super Genius, I had confidence you would tie it into this topic somehow.

And I agree - Mace rocks, flawed though he is.

 

There is one thread here that discusses the possible demonstration of the power of the Imperial Royal Guard in EpIII. Perhaps Mace will be killed by them?
Imagine Mace walking into Palpatine´s office. Palpatine Force-pulls Mace´s lightsaber out of his belt, then the guards kill him!

 

though that seems to me like he would be going out like a punk... which he was promised wouldn't happen.

So, if we take the idea that he is a representative and a figure-head for the jedi order, and that GL wants to show that Anakin really betrayed the entire order, wouldn't it then seem likely that to kick it off we would see Anakin blatently betraying Mace?

just a thought....

 

I would say that it would take a LOT to down ol' Mace - I mean, Obi-Wan did a stand-up job against Jango WITHOUT HIS LIGHTSABER.

Mace could use any of the Force powers from JKII to defeat the Royal Guards...

 

...and then Palpy would give him lots and lots of lightning....

I agree, though, that it would be most appropriate for Vader to kill Mace. That and the army destroying the Jedi temple would perfectly symbolize Anakin´s betrayal and the fall of the Jedi order.

 

Mace is the Boba of the PT--he does nothing, but everybody loves him.

 

well your right about one thing


I do love Mace

 

I feel Mace Windu's purpose is to (put plainly) vocally reprsent the Council. Without Mace Windu, the only member of the Council with a speaking role is Yoda. Yoda alone can't be the sole representative of the Council. They need someone else, someone Yoda could talk to, someone who could back Yoda in voicing the concerns of the Jedi Order. Without him, there's just Yoda, and that'd be counterproductive.

 

Mace is the Jedi, their living, breathing, symbolic and literal representation of the Jedi. He is everything good about them. To make a story natural, you need some element of routine or normality. Mace is that element, since he's a major Jedi that's for the most part uninvolved with the storyline, unlike Yoda, Anakin, Luke and Kenobi.

Unlike many fans, though, I don't see why people are saying he represents the reasons they should fall. What has Mace done thats been particularly arrogant?

 

In TPM, he discredited Qui Gonn's warnings by saying that if the Sith had come back, they'd have known about it. That's pretty arrogant, if you ask me.

 

Either it´s arrogant, or he is hiding something....

 

Not really. The Sith Order had been extinct for a millenium. You think they never heard such an off-the-cuff claim before? Further, they sense everything through the Force. Its how they operate. At that point in TPM, it wasn't clear that the Dark Side was clouding anything. So based on their methodology and experience, it is most likely that the Sith, in fact, hadn't come back.

What if someone told you, for instance, that they saw a Dodo bird? A T-Rex?

Further, I think too much is being read into his language. Its not as if he had the Council close investigation on the topic. It was further pursued until it wsa discovered that Jinn was correct.

 

Well that wasn't the only time I had found Windu to be a tad cocky or arrogant. The way he acted in the arena, spouting out his action movie one-liners was cocky on an almost Anakin kind of level. He did get the job done, though (at least against Jango Fett, anyway). Of course, I am willing to concede that if someone told me they'd seen a dinosaur, I'd be as skeptical as Mace was about the re-emergence of the Sith, however that doesn't dissuade me from having "a bad feeling" Mace.

As long as we don't get racial lines being drawn, seeing as how the traitor of the OT was Billy Dee. But Mace and Lando have that aura about them, and whereas Lando seemed good enough and turned bad, he turned back to good. Mace just seems a bit shadowy. Maybe he's Sifo-Dyas. Don't kno. Of course, for him to be a traitor, Sam wouldn't be able to get his perfect death scene GL promised (at least not in a way where people would care that he was getting killed). Maybe we're all just looking into this too much.

 

He's supposed to represent the average Jedi: Loyal, compassionate, and honorable; yet also arrogant and bound to follow without question a corrupt Republic, ultimatly leading to their own downfall. Just look at the Yoda/Mace scene in AotC.

Yoda: Arrogant, the Jedi have become. Even the older, more experienced ones. *glances at Mace*

Mace: Heh heh, yeah, some of these guys are so full of themselves it isn't funny. Not like me though. Did I ever tell you about that one time I destroyed 100 battle droids at once without saying a word? I didn't even break a sweat. Kinda like when...

Yoda: *rolls eyes*

 

I think they intended more but they got put on ice for a while.

Given GL's comments a year before Ep 2, (at the MTV Movie Awards) I think Sam L was supposed to be the one fighting Dooku, doing all the flips and crazy moves. When the ability & decision to CGI Yoda came about, I suppose they turned Windu into a red herring full of hot air. My dimly educated impression, anyway.

No to mention, Mace's facial expressions and wonky lightsaber swings in the Arena might have been another factor. He looks like a marionette holding in a mouthful of throw-up in that scene.

 

Yoda glared at Kenobi in that scene.

 

"Yoda glared at Kenobi in that scene."

It was a joke.

 

I believe Mace knows the prophesy well enough to know how things are going to turn out for the council, and wants to prevent it. That's why he showed such interest in Qui-Gon finding a "vergeance in the Force." It also explains why he did not want Anakin trained as a Jedi, and why he ordered him to stay away from the conflict on Geonosis.

I'm fairly certain the prophesy will be explained in detail in Ep3, and mace will be involved in that part of the story.

 

I think this pretty much sums it up

Posted by DarthKarde:

What is Mace Windu´s purpose in the saga?

To demonstrate why the Jedi Order must fall.

 

mace is not your typical jedi master, he is an elite if you will, he reached the council at an exceptionally young age....he may be arrogant, but hes got good reason to be, he is extremely powerful, we will see how powerful he really is when he fights in episode 3! SLJ will tear it up!