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JCC What is objectivity? Why do we like it so much?

Discussion in 'Community' started by blubeast1237, Jul 29, 2014.

  1. blubeast1237

    blubeast1237 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Objectivity, in contrast to subjectivity, is valued more in discourse. Why? And does objectivity truly exist?

    I would argue it may well exist, but it is something that we have not ever and may not ever be able to attain and utilize. We can only experience life through our eyes and that is all we will ever have, therefore I am leaning towards the belief that we can and only be subjective.

    But if this is true, then why do we value "being objective" as being somehow more useful than being subjective?

    Side Question: Why do people seem to think being logical is something separate from emotional responses? Or, rather, why do we see emotions as bad when it comes to logic, as if the two cannot work in tandem(which I believe they do)?
     
  2. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Well, whatever it is, math being boring is an example of it, apparently.
     
  3. blubeast1237

    blubeast1237 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Well no, that's subjective through a lens of attempting to analyze its objective values and merits. lol
     
  4. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Even numbers are so much cooler than odd numbers.
     
  5. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    We wish it existed because it would be orderly. But it doesn't and that's a good thing.
     
  6. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    We like objectivity because it's something everyone can address. We all can discuss objective matters, whereas subjective topics result in the DC/Marvel thread 'discussions' you see.
     
  7. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    I still think they should have called for help.
     
  8. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Disagree. It exists, but only as an approximation. Otherwise it's a useless theoretical term that only people like Quix and Ramza would care about.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
     
    blubeast1237 likes this.
  9. blubeast1237

    blubeast1237 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2007
    That's what I find debatable. We are, and our lives are experienced from a subjective nature 100% of the time, therefore if objectivity exists, it would be like Jello says, only an approximation of what we think it should be.

    But the very fact that we can only assume that its an approximation, while acknowledging that one can never be objective(due to the human experience), makes me doubt that it exists. And if it does exist, its something that we can't grasp.
     
  10. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Uh, bro, I was explaining why we LIKE it.

    Also seriously you're reaching /r/iamverysmart levels here. You're using a lot of words but saying nothing.
     
  11. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    objectivity is an ideal, rather than a reality possible for human minds to achieve. in some fields/situations it is desireable to attempt to attain this ideal. in others it is counterproductive and self-deceptive
     
  12. Lord Chazza

    Lord Chazza Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Usually. Unless you're actually asking for somebody's opinion.

    Because being subjective usually means applying your own spin or being influenced by your own feelings. Most people would rather make up their own minds about the subject in question than have somebody else muddy the waters.

    If all you're being asked to do is state facts then I would say that you can indeed be entirely objective. If you're being asked to come to a judgement then obviously that is going to be at least partially subjective but you can still be as objective as possible by considering all the available options/positions equally.
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  13. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Objectivity is placed on a higher pedestal because it accurately corresponds to its own referent. This is different from subjectivity, where everyone's opinion of a topic is treated equally, regardless of accuracy.

    For example, let's say I'm holding a red apple, and I tell someone else, "This apple is red." That's an objectively true statement, when referring to that apple and others like it. However, if I said, "all apples are red", that would be both a subjective opinion and false as well. No one seems to debate the obviousness of these concepts, unless they carry moral or historical implications.
     
  14. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    That's not a subjective claim at all. That's an objective claim.
     
  15. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2009
    No, its subjective because some apples are green.
     
  16. tom

    tom Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2004
  17. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    I just want you to know that your definitions are so poorly formulated that I have tried, and failed, three times to fully articulate all of the issues before scrapping the post in frustration.

    Here, have a .gif of Larry David which fully encapsulates the broad spectrum of my current emotional state.
    [​IMG]

    Also learn the difference between subjectivity, relativism, and induction, because holy hell.
     
  18. Penguinator

    Penguinator Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005

    "Subjective" - you keep using that word.

    [​IMG]
     
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  19. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Apparently "subjective" means "incorrect". Interesting.
     
  20. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2009
    "Subjectivity" refers to a subject in terms of opinion, while "objectivity" refers to accuracy in matters of truth. Relativism doesn't work on a philosophical level, because you'd have to include the claims made by the speaker along with everyone else's. As for "induction", Webster's defines it as "inference of a generalized conclusion from particular instances"...or in other words, "guessing".
     
  21. Lord Chazza

    Lord Chazza Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2013
    The apple colour analogy never worked anyway. This apple is red, green, yellow, orange and a whole lot else besides.

    [​IMG]
     
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  22. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2009
    I was trying to keep it simple, for the sake of this discussion.
     
  23. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Ahh... you thought I was serious. OK. To be clear then, your earlier examples of something being subjective sounded like you thought it was subjective because the statement was an inaccurate assumption. And that if it had been correct, it would have been an objective statement.
     
  24. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2009
    I had no reason to think otherwise.

    Generally, yes. In terms of philosophical discussion, the word "subjective" is used for very broad issues, full of varying opinions. However, if you were to make a steadfast claim on something, that claim would be objective because it refers to that particular object. Whether its true or not is another matter.
     
  25. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007