What is so BAD about the love dialogue/acting between Anakin and Padmé?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by tun_dot_com, Mar 9, 2003.

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  1. tun_dot_com Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2002
    star 2
    I really don't understand the bashing here at this point. I've heard numerous complaints about Anakin and Padmé's bad dialogue, acting, etc...I personally think they did a great job in capturing the character of Anakin and Padmé. Think about it. In the story, Anakin is a Jedi, who isn't allowed to love. How is he supposed to know what to say, and make the smoothest moves? He has almost no practice in this! And look at Padmé! She has lived a life of service almost her entire life! At what point does she learn how to deal with guys? I think people's standards of current acting and dialogue are the reasons behind these thoughts. But what you over look is that the story means for these two to have bad acting and dialogue. They have no experience in this kind of thing. Sure, the scenes may be awkward, the dialogue may be wooden, and you may not like it, but this is their first experience in love. You people just have your standards set too high.
  2. GriffZ Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2001
    star 6

    IMO, it just seems very stilted and unnatural. Sorry if that offends you!

  3. tun_dot_com Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2002
    star 2
    Well obviously it's not going to seem natural to you. We have a society where everyone pretty much has a similar concept of romance. With these two characters, it's anything but normal.
  4. Mace Windy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 1999
    star 6
    Stilted? Unnatural? Isn't that what love dialogue is all about? I know that when I asked out my girlfriend what I had to say sounded a bit awkward and rigid.Heh, I even rehearsed it in my head a few times before I said it, and it still came out as a dud.

    In my mind, the love dialogue in AOTC was more realistic than that of most movies. The reason that we don't like it as much, is because it sounds different than what we are used to hearing from films. Just as in real life, it is not as pleasing to the ears.





    :cool: Mace Windy,
    this signature blows!
  5. SithLord_03 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2003
    i agree with tun_dot_com; granted its not the greatest acting in the world, but then again none of the SW movies have won academy awards for acting; also the fact that its the first real romantic side of SW that we have seen, so we're not used to seeing Jedi frolicking around in an open meadow; but the story needed to be told

    at first i was like "what is this?" but after i watched the dvd with audio commentary i had a different perception of those scenes; they were designed specifically to TELL THE STORY, so we can understand why Anakin does what he does eventually.
  6. tun_dot_com Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2002
    star 2
    Lol Mace Windy, what happened to "Yes, there is a draft in here!"
  7. stacysatrip Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2002
    star 4
    I don't think it was bad at all. It's just that in movies, it seems we're accustomed to couples always saying and doing exactly the right things. Ani and Padme's relationship is supposed to be awkward and uncomfortable at the start. But I think they make a great pair, and I for one really bought in to the romance. I think it could have been developed a little more, but then people would have complained that it took away from the action. I think it's a very sweet story with an ultimately tragic ending.

    I thought Hayden and Natalie had great chemistry together. They really shine in the picnic scene; there they do seem very natural. When Padme finally tells Anakin she loves him, I think it's beautifully acted. Also, when he confesses about the massacre to her, you can see she's horrified but sympathetic because she loves him.

    I enjoyed the love story immensely, and I don't understand why it's bashed so terribly. Not every romance has to be like Han and Leia's.
  8. Sophita Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    I agree completely with Mace Windy. Frankly, I like the dialogue in AOTC compared to films where the hero and heroine always know the perfect thing to say, at ther right time, and there never are any awkward moments (only in movies do first kisses succeed 99.9999% of the time :p) & the hero and heroine, once their love has been declared, never have to worry about anything because their love can conquer all.
  9. AAMD11 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2002
    star 4
  10. topgoalscorer_no11 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2001
    star 3
    I really like AotC, but even I have to admit that some of the dialogue and acting in most of the 'love' scenes doesn't really come off.

    The only really good scene is the meadow picnic- that sounds like a real conversation people might have.

    The problem is not the idea behind the scenes, or what they are trying to communicate, it's the execution. It's bad writing. The acting I have less of a problem with.
  11. Frank_Booth Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2003
    star 1
    I've seen the "It's not a typical romance used in Hollywood/entertainment business" argument used more and more in recent days.

    I think there is some merit to it, and Lucas may have very well intended to make his love scenes more formal and less spontaneous than what you generally expect from a romance.

    In my opinion, it stifles and suffocates any chemistry Hayden and Nat might have, and makes the supposed romance appear to be cut scenes from a high school play. Yes, if only one of them was formal and cold it might work, but watching two uncomfortable, stiff youngsters droning on in passionless monotone just isn't my (or many other peoples', I'd guess) cup of tea.

    I'm all for experimentation, doing things in a different, genre bending way. But if a director can't or won't direct his actors better and the script gives them nothing to work with, my opinion is that George should have allowed or instructed H&N to play it more natural. There is a reason why the AOTC style of romantic dialogue isn't very popular...
  12. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    'I agree completely with Mace Windy. Frankly, I like the dialogue in AOTC compared to films where the hero and heroine always know the perfect thing to say, at ther right time,"

    But thats how AOTC is, they constantly talk in speeches.

    Anyways I'm only speaking for myself but my problems are as follows:

    1)I don't feel that these two make a good couple
    2)I don't really understand why either of them fell for each other beyond a physical level
    3)I don't really like Padme as a character, I find her to be very inconsistent from scene
    4)I don't find the scenes particularly romantic other then the scenery
    5)I don't find the romance scene sreally fit with the rest of the movie
    6)I don't feelt here was suffient set up from TPM for the romance
    7)I don't find either charater to be relatable or likeable
    8)I think Anakins behavior towards Padme to be very creepy at times, not charming
    9)I find some of the romance scenes to be very very boring.

    By no means are these statements facts, its just how i feel
  13. TheSithStrikeBack Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2002
    star 1
    I thought the romance worked. Hayden and Natalie had a spark between them, and it showed. When I watch these love scenes, I never feel that they're strange or BAD. They just work.
  14. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    How I envy you :(

    How I envy everyone who got to see a great SW film in AOTC
  15. I_AM_IRON_MAN Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2002
    star 2
    The problem with the dialogue is that it is written in an unnatural/corny manner, trying to immitate formal speech, in a universe where no one speaks that way.
  16. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    I could handle corny, corny is at least fun. But yes the overly formal speech doesn't work unless you are a very good writer, which GL claims not to be when it comes to dialogue.

    TO me, you can do a lot more with romance without saying anything, let glances and music tell the story for you, this is supposedly been the SW style up until now. Music and visuals.
  17. TheSithStrikeBack Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2002
    star 1
    "in a universe where no one speaks that way."

    Star Wars is a universe where anything is possible. The love dialogue is not imitating anything. It's just the way these formal Star Wars characters speak. And it makes sense.
  18. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    The fireplace scene also feels disconnected with the rest of the film. I hesitate to use the word "rushed", but that's what it feels like.

    Maybe the scene would go down better with many if more time was spent on Hayden and Natalie getting closer and learning more about each other. I don't like this scene because it never feels convincing that Anakin likes Padme. If GL inserted more shots of Anakin maybe stealing a quick glance at this policital beauty, or maybe even casually telling Jar Jar more about his affection for Padme (that would be fun and would add more to the romance).

    But the way it's presented in the film -- it just plops right there in your lap suddenly. (The previous scene wasn't so bad, with Hayden and Natalie sharing a lighter moment together with the food). Then, suddenly, it gets heavy and stifling. Even a couple added lines before his speech like "Padme, I've been wanting to tell you something.." or "There's something that you should know.." Any simple line to help ease the transition a little would've helped.

    I dont know if footage was cut but that scene always felt too truncated to me.
  19. Twelve_Motion Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 4
    To me, you can do a lot more with romance without saying anything, let glances and music tell the story for you, this is supposedly been the SW style up until now. Music and visuals.

    I agree with RS on this one. I don't understand how Anakin and Padme' could be in love with eachother based on the dialogue between the two. The love theme in the movie is a very good peace. But I feel there should have been a little more development there to actually show there love for one another. It takes more than just the characters saying it to convince me these two people actually love eachother.

    We see Anakin say, "From the moment I met you... and I thought about her every day..." but you need a little more than just dialogue to show an actual connection of love between two people.
  20. TheSithStrikeBack Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2002
    star 1
    My only gripe about the love story is the deletion of the family scenes. These scenes were just too good to throw out. They seal the believability of the love between Anakin and Padme. Why George couldn't sacrifice another 2-3 minutes of film added is by me.
  21. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    Yes, show us they are inlove, don't have them tell us.

    Take the first kiss scene, eliminate all the dialogue and just play across the stars and its instantly more romantic.

    "Star Wars is a universe where anything is possible."


    So if Padme suddenly started shooting lasers out of her eyes this would be ok?

    If Obi-wan suddenly grew a tail?

    What if Anakin started talk backwards? Its a GFFA, anything can happen, right??

    Just because its imaginary does not mean there should not be a consistent reality, and beleivability, thats what good sci-fi fantasy is built upon, inner logic, not just doing every random thing that your imagination can come up with.
  22. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    People herald that Romeo and Juliet is the best romance. I don't believe that because there was only a Physical attraction and they only met for one day before falling in love. I told my Drama teacher that once and he told me to shut up, how rude is that? I liked the dialogue and the sceens between Padme and Anakin.
  23. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    Yes but R & J was written by Shakespear, the mot famous and one of the most repsected writers of all time, compared with GL who admits he hates writing, and says that dialogue is unimportant.

    Its not the style, its the quality.

    shakespear also lived in shakespearian times when everyone talked like that and all his plays were in that style, none of the SW films are in t hat style excpet AOTC, not even TPM.
  24. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    I agree with Mace Windy here. What I said on my first date with my now wife was horrible. Nothing romanticy, but was aweful. Surprised we lasted 10 years. I still say awkward things. To me the awkwardness,that is natural!
  25. SHAD0W-JEDI Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 3

    This is much-discussed, much-debated topic on these boards, and one that tests the restriction of the format (I admit to being wordy, but even I try to keep it relatively short). It is also one that inspires a LOT of passion... and temper... so I will tread carefully...

    I think that the Anakin I saw in AOTC is a pretty well thought-out, rounded character. He has a lot of positive traits, but, to me, he is also a lot more hot-headed and immature than I would have expected. Not unrealistic in that regard, but not showing nearly as much poise and control and yes, there is that word again, maturity as I would have expected after undergoing ten years of Jedi training. None of this is in any way at odds with his upcoming fall; if anything, we can clearly see, in AOTC, the emotional and moral vulnerablities that Sidious can twist to his advantage in the next episode.

    The character that really threw me was Padme. That she would fall for the Anakin I saw in AOTC was hard to believe...UNLESS she was a lot less mature, sophisticated, balanced, smart, and sensible than I had come to expect from PHANTOM MENACE. It is here that the romance stumbled, for me... it just didn't seem credible that this woman would fall for this BOY... it was like seeing a twenty-something college grad with career, responsibilities,etc, fall in love with a sulking, hot headed, somewhat whiney high school senior... and please note I said "fall in LOVE", not "fall in LUST". I couldn't reconcile this unless I saw Padme as a woman with a huge Achilles Heel when it comes to romance... an incredibly glaring case of a smart woman making some AMAZINGLY bad choices.

    Now, that may actually be GL's intent. I think a lot of us expected that the Anakin/Padme love story would be one of tragedy in that a good love would go bad, or come to bad ends, or be unable to overcome other circumstances... but maybe, in fact, this isn't a case of doomed love so much as it was meant to be a a case of a love that hastens doom for them both... a much darker and more disturbing scenario. I can't shake the feeling that just when Anakin needs someone to BOLSTER his selfcontrol, his coming to terms with duty, needs some humbling and some moderation, he finds someone who, if anything, encourages his rebeliousness, his arrogance, his ego, and his tendency to favor the emotional and tempestuous over the logical and gentle.

    Aside from that...*L*... I think the "sand" dialogue goes above and beyond the call of duty if GL honestly WAS trying to MAKE Anakin appear romantically clumsy...*S* And unless women on Naboo ROUTINELY wear Frederick's of Hollywood garb to private firelplace chats with guys they consider platonic friends, Padme's choice of attire around Anakin really makes you wonder just what this girl is supposed to be thinking...;)

    Shadow
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