What is so BAD about the love dialogue/acting between Anakin and Padmé?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by tun_dot_com, Mar 9, 2003.

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  1. Clonetrooper1000 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 3
    JohnWilliams00: "Maybe my defintion of geek differs clonetrooper"

    I never stated what I thought it means, but what I KNOW it means according to the dictionaries of the english language. As long as I don't let Star Wars, or footie, or my other interests absorb my lifestyle then it won't have an adverse effect on my social life. If it does, then I am a geek.
  2. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    the word "geek" is int he dictionary???????????? :eek:
  3. SlowLearner Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 3
    If Anakin was really obsessive, he would never have given up so easily when Padme told him she wasn't going to fall in love with him at the fireplace.

    A great point, PMT99! :) I don't get how some people can see Anakin as an obsessive stalker type. When he's asked to back off, he BACKS OFF! Stalkers don't take no for an answer.

    Two of my favorite Anakin lines are "I'll do whatever you ask" and "I've given up trying to argue with you" because they show that Padme calls the shots in this relationship. In fact, Anakin seems kinda whipped if you ask me. [face_laugh]
  4. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    Anakin seems kinda whipped if you ask me

    I would be too, if we're talking about Padme ;)
  5. Clonetrooper1000 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 3
    Rebel Scumb: "the word "geek" is int he dictionary???????????? :eek:"

    Thats funny cause I have three dictionaries with it in it. This is from the Oxford English Reference Dictionary:

    "a person who is socially inept"

    Just shows you, Rebel Scumb.
  6. Biddybot Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2002
    star 1
    Personally, I laughed and snickered at the love dialog and acting. Why? Because it reminded me so much of the teen romance comics I used to enjoy reading way back when...in fact, I'll bet you could find just about all the same dialog used in AOTC line for line in some of those comics stories, if you looked through a half dozen issues or so. It just struck me as so totally cliched and familiar. The fireside scene, picnic scene, guy putting himself in danger and pretending to be hurt scene, and ESPECIALLY that rolling around in the grass scene--all cliches and surprising only because I didn't think anybody but trash movie makers even did stuff like this anymore. I quite enjoyed it on a camp level--it was entertaining--but to me it was juvenile soap opera at best. Whether that means it was thus bad is up to your own standards and on what level you approach AOTC, I guess.

    The best romance scene to me, in terms of adult quality, was the early part of the picnic scene, when Anakin was annoyed at hearing of Padme's childhood sweetie and then had the political chat with her that hinted at Anakin's future leanings. It had some chill to it and decent acting. All the rest just seemed silly to me by comparison.
  7. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    "Just shows you, Rebel Scumb."

    Yeah you got me good.
  8. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    "If Anakin was really obsessive, he would never have given up so easily when Padme told him she wasn't going to fall in love with him at the fireplace."

    PMT, if a girl you briefly crossed paths with ten years ago told you, "I've been thinking about you every day for the last decade," wouldn't that set off a few flags? That's the kind of obsession I'm talking about.

    Giving a eulogy that consists entirely of self-pity doesn't strike you as at all self-absorbed? Killing women and children is perfectly acceptable under the right circumstances? Even if you cared about the person in question enough to get them help, fear and pity in no way equal "true, deep love."
  9. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    DG: Even Hitler had a wife ;)
  10. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    True, but Padme seems written to be much more rational and stable than Mrs. Hitler. ;)
  11. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    True...

    Actually, I've thought about this issue quite a bit.

    "Why does Padme allow herself to love and marry a mass murderer?"

    In TPM, Padme's stance against needless violence was well established. This character trait is inconsistent with her apparent acceptance of Anakin's killing spree. But here's how it actually IS consistent.

    Padme likely knows nothing of the Tusken Raiders. That is, until her and Anakin arrive at the Lars homestead. There, Cliegg describes them as "vicious, mindless monsters." She doesn't view them in the same light as humans because of this. She may even view them as a kind of "battle droid" type of figure. And she herself has shot battle droids before.

    She also holds the values of family close to her heart. Unfortunately, this point isn't established in the proper film, but of course we see it in the deleted scenes. We see how close she is with her family, so she can identify with the pain Anakin must be feeling over his loss.

    She also met Shmi when she lived with Anakin, back in TPM, so we can safely assume she has pleasant memories of Shmi, and would naturally feel a combination of sorrow and anger at the nature of her death.

    Combining all these factors, I don't see it being much of a stretch that she would accept Anakin's act of slaughtering the Tuskens.
  12. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    Darth Geist-

    If I asked the girl to back off and she does, then she was never really that obsessive to begin with because people who are obsessed with the person they are attracted to would never take no for an answer and Anakin accepted Padme's wish when she told him they weren't going to be together.

    If the eulogy consists of how much she wants to be with me, that's not being self-absorbed because she is willing to sacrifice her own needs to support me just as I would do the same for her and having Anakin say the words, "I will do anything you say" to Padme is not being self-absorbed either because he's willing to put aside his selfish needs so he can love and support her.

    Finally, noone is saying that killing women and children is acceptable because neither I nor anyone else is capable of committing such an act but it is understandable that she wanted to avenge her mother who was killed by these group of nomadic savages the same way Anakin wanted to avenge his mother against the Tuskens. Padme knows how much Anakin's mom meant to him and she already had a glimpse of what the Tuskens were like in TPM when they were shooting at Ani and the other podracers which makes her feel more sorry for Anakin than she is to the Tuskens.

    Padme was already in love with Anakin from the start of AOTC even though she's hiding it from him and the audience so there wasn't any need for the tragedies that happened to Anakin to make her "truly, deeply" love him.
  13. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    "If I asked the girl to back off and she does, then she was never really that obsessive to begin with because people who are obsessed with the person they are attracted to would never take no for an answer and Anakin accepted Padme's wish when she told him they weren't going to be together."

    And so, you don't consider fixating on one girl for ten years to be any degree of obsession?

    "If the eulogy consists of how much she wants to be with me, that's not being self-absorbed because she is willing to sacrifice her own needs to support me just as I would do the same for her and having Anakin say the words, "I will do anything you say" to Padme is not being self-absorbed either because he's willing to put aside his selfish needs so he can love and support her."

    ...You do know what a eulogy is, right?

    "Finally, noone is saying that killing women and children is acceptable because neither I nor anyone else is capable of committing such an act but it is understandable that she wanted to avenge her mother who was killed by these group of nomadic savages the same way Anakin wanted to avenge his mother against the Tuskens. Padme knows how much Anakin's mom meant to him and she already had a glimpse of what the Tuskens were like in TPM when they were shooting at Ani and the other podracers which makes her feel more sorry for Anakin than she is to the Tuskens."

    Pity him, maybe, but are you saying his slaughter didn't change the way she saw him in the slightest?

    "Padme was already in love with Anakin from the start of AOTC even though she's hiding it from him and the audience..."

    What did she see in him then? Within their first day together, he fumbles his first words to her, disrespects his master, leers at her point-blank, and goes on an extended whining streak. Where are the signs that she sees anything in him?
  14. raymond Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2003
    star 1
    they DID A AWSOME job! JUST somebody made a rumor and it got very huge,

    DON'T LET IT bother you, AOTC is one of the best love movies of all time.
  15. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    Hi

    my feelings about the romance are mixed, I don't think there was much chemistry between them, but i do actually find some of Anakins weird, obsessive behaviour interesting, his speech to her by the fireside is so raw and honest, its the sort of stuff we all feel when we first fall for someone, even if we don't say it. But the problem is that her reactions just don't make sense. i think she would be creeped out by his behaviour and would back away. instead we're meant to believe that she's been in love with him for the last 10 years as well --- ! no way. maybe if they were both 15 in TPM and hadn't seen each other for 10 years they might still be in love, but there's no way she was interested in a 9 year old boy.
    I don't understand why Lucas had to make it definite that they hadn't seen each other in 10 years, if he'd left it up to us we could've imagined that they had seen each othe occasionally and that would make more sense.
    The other problem is the way they fall in love -- Han and Leia fell in love while dodging star destroyers, asteroids and space slugs, the action added heat to their romance, but Anakin and Padme fall in love while out having a picnic and having dinner. George - this is an action movie exploit that to your advantage.
    And Padme's so humorless, sure she's pretty but give me princess leia any day.

    having said all that i do kind of enjoy watching the love scenes, I believe that he loves her but i don't really believe that she loves him. Schizo or what?!

    gez
  16. The_Porridge_Boy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2001
    star 1

    Padme likely knows nothing of the Tusken Raiders. That is, until her and Anakin arrive at the Lars homestead. There, Cliegg describes them as "vicious, mindless monsters." She doesn't view them in the same light as humans because of this. She may even view them as a kind of "battle droid" type of figure. And she herself has shot battle droids before.


    The thing is, Anakin did mention killing both women and children as well. This shows that there is a family unit (as seen the houses) which indicates that the Tusken Raiders may not be as "mindlessly" bloodthirsty as thought to have been. If they are capable of a family unit, then in most cases they can be capable of acting peaceful. Even though Amidala might not have seen the Tusken camps, she still should have drawn a relation to other living beings of children and women.

    I'm not so much complaining of the logic in the movie, but more of the logic that GL was trying to "hand off" to the audience. Sure I can accept this explains Anakin's stroll down the dark side, but I can hardly accept the fact of Amidala loving him in that time of slaughter.

    Even as you said, many people might not get it until they saw *deleted* scenes. This further emphasizes that it failed to logically bring in the viewer to say:

    "Hey I'd console him too after killing men, women and children"

    Without them having to further investigate out the movie limits of it's showing time. I really don't care how people legitimize it cause a "slaughter" of anything bigger than an insect out of a fit of rage is always scary, no matter what sort of person they are.
  17. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    "And so, you don't consider fixating on one girl for ten years to be any degree of obsession?"

    Why should it be? Is it really that dangerous to tell the girl how much you felt about them and how long you've thought about them? If the answers to both of these questions is yes, then I don't see how anyone can hook up with the person they have a crush on and not be honest with them about anything at the same time.

    "....You do know what an eulogy is, right?"

    Actually, I never heard of the word now that you mentioned it.

    "Pity him, maybe, but are you saying his slaughter didn't change the way she saw him in the slightest."

    Well, it only shows Padme that Anakin is very protective of the people he loves but should anything happen to them, he'll explode around the perpetrators and anyone who stands in his way. It also shows her that he'll repeat his violent outburst should Padme meet her end and this time, nothing will restrain him from going any further which is why she stayed with him instead of hightailing it to Las Vegas.

    "What did she see in him then? Within their first day together, he fumbles his first words, disrespects his master, leers at her point-blank, and goes on the extended whining streak. Where are the signs that she sees anything to him?"

    1. If you watch the scene, Padme never took her eyes off of Anakin the whole time until she goes to her bedroom to rest.

    2. Anakin fumbling his first words shows her that he is breathtaken by the way Padme looks now compared to the last time he saw her.

    3. His disrespect towards his master shows Padme that he's a rebel without a cause.

    and

    4. Anakin's whining streak is merely the venting of his frustrations about his realtionship with Obi-wan and she understands why he would act like this but Anakin didn't whine throughout the whole movie since he's focused on hooking up with Padme.
  18. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    Is it really that dangerous to tell the girl how much you felt about them and how long you've thought about them? If the answers to both of these questions is yes, then I don't see how anyone can hook up with the person they have a crush on and not be honest with them about anything at the same time.

    I get the impression you're fairly young, yes? If so, then let me tell you: Romance only gets more complicated as you get older--but whatever your age or level of experience, there are pitfalls to avoid.

    Anakin comes on much too strongly and too fast for any stable girl to fall for him; if he tried the same techniques in real life, his approach would set off all kinds of warning flags. Telling a girl you haven't seen in a while, "I've been thinking about you" is one thing; telling her "I've been thinking of you and only you for the past [insert ungodly amount of time]" is something else entirely, especially when you barely knew each other to begin with. That approach gives out the impression that you're needy, that you're quite possibly unstable, and that over all that time, you've built her up into something she can't possibly be (which leads to inevitable disappointment, which leads to all kinds of bad karma, especially when coupled with instability).

    Anakin then spills his feelings for her all over the place, describing in vivid detail the burning pain he feels without her, and practically throwing himself at her feet, begging her to be with him. This is a sure-fire way to scare the living hell out of your would-be partner, especially when you've only properly known her for a matter of days; once she's seen that side of you, she knows you might show it again, and no one wants to be around when that happens.

    We then have Anakin's eulogy (a tribute to the deceased at a funeral service). Cliegg's eulogy has nothing but praise and love for Shmi, while Anakin focuses almost entirely on himself and his own self pity. Compared to his other blunders, it's a minor social misstep, but a misstep nonetheless.

    I don't have to explain why mass murder is a no-no when seducing a girl; if she finds out, and doesn't immediately run in terror, it's because she's more afraid of what you'll do once you find her than she is of staying with you. Fear of a person is in no way love for them, though some people in that situation try to convince themselves that it is.

    Confronted with all this, Padme not only stays in his presence, not only agrees to romantic involvement, but within days of his massacre, runs off to marry him. (Incidentally, "running off to Vegas" with someone refers to just that--running off to marry them, usually after you just met them.)

    Anakin's side of the story, such as it is, makes sense enough. Padme's makes no sense at all.
  19. The_Porridge_Boy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2001
    star 1
    Darth Geist: I really agree with you.

    PMT99:


    Well, it only shows Padme that Anakin is very protective of the people he loves but should anything happen to them, he'll explode around the perpetrators and anyone who stands in his way. It also shows her that he'll repeat his violent outburst should Padme meet her end and this time, nothing will restrain him from going any further which is why she stayed with him instead of hightailing it to Las Vegas.

    Yes that might be the case, and yes even GL might even put it in EP3 where Padme says to someone "I stayed with Anakin so he won't hurt anyone else." But as AOTC the movie itself, which we leave no other "assumptions" we have to interpret it as what came on the screen before us.

    You interpretation if fine if one chooses to venture out the confines of the movie. But I see no relation to any other part of the movie where Padme "expresses" this idea of being Anakin's self restaint nor did GL express this idea. Personally I feel that the audience logical acceptance outweighs the possible "future movie" revalation left for the next film.

    The logic of Padme still liking Anakin after his slaughter *should* be either;

    legitimized by the end of the movie;

    or

    Anakin's outburst becoming more *subtle* which might not interfere with the courtship but can be further elaborated in the 3rd film.

    But ultimately it's GL doing whatever the damned he wants. It's his project.

    1. If you watch the scene, Padme never took her eyes off of Anakin the whole time until she goes to her bedroom to rest.


    I'm personally one person not to have things stuffed right into my face such as "This guy's bad and this guy's good." but there should be some sort of indication in direction, that doesn't need the audience to pick through the film with a fine tooth comb, which the audience can conciously pick up.

    The fact is, GL didn't seem to make it such big thing which would show re-enforcement of Padme liking Anakin therefore I should be able to dismiss it. Besides as seen in the first trailers that came out, that one scene where Anakin and Padme are talking, you can see their eyes don't even lock up! It's like their looking over their shoulders!
  20. tun_dot_com Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2002
    star 2
    I think you all seem to have forgotten that this was a movie? Sure it might not happen in real life, but anything can happen in a movie. I think the discussion also got slightly off topic. How about the actual dialogue? Was it appropriate given the situation and the backgrounds of the two?
  21. SlowLearner Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 3
    Combining all these factors, I don't see it being much of a stretch that she would accept Anakin's act of slaughtering the Tuskens.

    I agree with you, royalguard96. :)

    Besides, if people think Padme still accepting Anakin after his confession is such a stretch, what about Luke in ROTJ? DV's heinous acts far outnumber and eclipse what Anakin did in AOTC, but Luke still ends up wanting to save Vader. Why is that?

    Because like his mother, Luke still sees the good in Anakin in spite of his evil deeds. He sees someone who is worth redeeming and saving. To me, Padme and Luke epitomize the concept of unconditional love. :)
  22. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    "I think you all seem to have forgotten that this was a movie? Sure it might not happen in real life, but anything can happen in a movie."

    That's a bit of a cop out, don't you think?
  23. vampire-jing Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2002
    star 3
    Besides, if people think Padme still accepting Anakin after his confession is such a stretch, what about Luke in ROTJ? DV's heinous acts far outnumber and eclipse what Anakin did in AOTC, but Luke still ends up wanting to save Vader. Why is that?

    Because like his mother, Luke still sees the good in Anakin in spite of his evil deeds. He sees someone who is worth redeeming and saving. To me, Padme and Luke epitomize the concept of unconditional love.


    Exactly.I always believe "Love and forgive" is one important moral of the SW saga.
  24. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    Darth Geist-

    "I get the impression you're fairly young, yes?"

    Well, I just turned 21 last month.

    "Anakin comes on much too strongly and too fast for any stable girl to fall for him; if he tried the same techniques in real life, his approach would set off all kinds of warning flags. Telling a girl you haven't seen in a while, "I've been thinking about you" is one thing; telling her "I've been thinking of you and only you for the past [insert ungodly amount of time]" is something else entirely, especially when you barely knew each other to begin with. That approach gives out the impression that your needy, that you're quite unstable, and over all that time, you've built her up into something she can't possibly be (which leads to inevitable disappointment, which leads to all kinds of bad karma, especially when coupled with instability)."

    Would a needy person be willing to sacrifice everything for the benefit of their girlfriend? That is what Anakin is doing hence the words "I will do anything you say." He is willing to jepordize his future in the Jedi Order to be with Padme and that takes guts for someone like him to do this. Anakin isn't making Padme out to be something she's not because the last time he did that, she revealed herself to be Queen Amidala and that sent his jaw to the floor so he isn't about to make the same mistake twice. Finally, an unstable person would go into a violent breakdown if their girlfriend dumps them but Anakin kept his cool and distanced himself from Padme after the fireplace discussion.

    If the girl is already attracted to a guy like Anakin and see's the way he's professing his love for her, she would be flattered and heartfelt to know that he has feelings for her the same way she does him.

    "Anakin then spills his feelings for her all over the place, describing in vivid detail the burning pain he feels about her, and practically throwing himself at her feet, begging her to be with him. This is a sure-fire way to scare the living hell out of your would-be partner; especially when you've properly known her for a matter of days; once she's seen that side of you, she knows you might show it again, and no one wants to be around when that happens."

    Only today's society would see this as a problem because they never express their feelings to their gender partners and they pretend that they don't like the person they're attracted to until they know enough about each other which takes them months or even years but in a medival period, it is generally acceptable for a man to express his love for the woman he loves through poetry, with his own words, and even with flowers and candy.

    There is a thread somewhere that talks about Anakin's love profession being similar to a story called "A divine comedy" and that is where Lucas may based the love story on.

    "We then have Anakin's eulogy ( a tribute to the deceased at a funeral service). Cliegg's eulogy has nothing but praise and love for Shmi while Anakin focuses almost entirely on himself and his own self pity."

    Uhhh, Anakin did make a promise to Shmi that he would come back and free her and he failed to live up to that promise so his focus on himself is because he's blaming himself for not coming to her aid in time. Add that to the enviroment he was living while he was training as a Jedi, one would think why he would pity himself.

    "I don't have to explain why mass murder is a big no-no when seducing a girl; if she finds out, and doesn't immediately run in terror, it's because she's more afraid of what you'll do once you find her than she is of staying with you."

    Only if she's jumping into conclusions and not bothering to here my side of the story. Besides, the people Anakin killed are as guilty as he was since they killed his mom and the 27 people trying to rescue her as well as amputating Cliegg's leg and Padme knew about that too so she was torn between whether to condemm Anakin or feel sorry for him.

    "Confronted with all this, Padme not only stays in his presence, not only agrees to romantic involvemen
  25. RoseBlue Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2003
    On Anakin having a ten-yeaar old crush, I had a crush on a guy for four years. It was based on his looks only since I knew nothing about him. I did not stalk,, hararasise or even acted in any way obsessive. He was the only boy I had a crush on then period. Anakin lived in the Jedi Temple where he was forbidden emotional attachements. He would have lost any close friends he had on Tatooine and he doesn't seem close to anybody on Tatooine except his mother. He never could develop another crush.

    The dialogeue was there for a reason. Padme is supposed to act cold, since she is a Queen. She has many responsiblities since she was a child, and doesn't have a good idea about relationships. Plus, the formal dialogue reminds us of our past and it gives an air of history to the PT compared to the OT.

    On the whining, Anakin acted very normal. Most people do complain and he had a right to. Obi-Wan was critical and a hypocrite. The least favorite teacher in my high school was a critical guy like Obi-Wan. I garantee you that everybody complained and whined about him.

    With regards to the Tuskens, what he did was wrong. It is understandable though. I know that if I was in his position, I would have done the same thing. It was hardly like he did because somebody complained about his clothes or said something like your cooking sinks. He had a really good reason to be mad at them.

    Personally, I loved the love story. It is my favorite one of all the ones I have read.
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