What is so BAD about the love dialogue/acting between Anakin and Padmé?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by tun_dot_com, Mar 9, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. AnakinWisler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 4
    First off, I didn't find anything BAD in the Anakin and Padmé's love dialogue [face_plain] Anakin is able to confined in Padmé many of his emotions that he is not able to with anyone else. I think that may play a part in why Padmé starts falling for Anakin. :)
  2. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    Percisely.

    "What does Padme see in Anakin? He's a breath of fresh air to her because all her life, she is surrounded by so many yes-men"

    I've never seen it that way, I don't really note any yes men in Padmes life, typho palaptine and others always seem to disagree with her.

    "she sees Anakin as the first to be a "rebel without a cause" which intrigues her."

    When?

    "Sure, Padme is uncomfortable by the way Anakin looks at her but only because of the fact that she's falling in love for the first time but is too afraid to show that she feels the same way he does knowing what it will do to her career and to him."

    Adding fuel to the flame that when girls say 'no' they really mean 'yes', I doubt highly that Padem is all ready falling for Anakin by that scene.

    "and he wasn't famous to her for being a serial killer until he brought vengeance upon the Tuskens"

    But once she found out about it, it should've been a big wake up call to her

    "Padme pulled a 180 because she came close to being killed in the droid factory and that she realised that if she dies, she would never get the chance to tell Anakin how she really felt about him, hence her true, deep love confession to him."

    But what indication do we have of this? When do we see Padme ever coming to this descion? what was it about anakin that won her over? The tusken slaughter? Or is releuctance to rescue Obi-wan.

    "If this love story is forced, then so is the one between Romeo and Juliet because they fell in love and got married after knowing each other for 1 day, yet everyone considers that a good love story."

    Because the characters are writtne with such passion and conviction that we beleive in their love, we can also easily identify with the forces at work against them. We don't get much in the way of Jedi disapproving of relationships, obi-wan gives Anakin a little warning but thats about it, and there's no real show consequence to disobeying this rule, or why its a rule to begin with. Futher more, it easier to agree with Anakins rule breaking then it is with the jedi rules, so its just another reason not to like the jedi.
  3. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    "The biggest problem I had with the love story in Attack of the Clones was that I wasn't convinced Padme felt the same way about Anakin that Anakin felt with her. Perhaps that was deliberate, and will factor in the plot of Episode III, but Natalie didn't convince me at all that she even tolerated Anakin. Hayden was completely convincing, though, but the same can't be said with Natalie. So that was my main problem with the love story in Attack of the Clones."

    Agreed.
  4. The_Porridge_Boy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2001
    star 1
    GL did what he like it's his own darn movie. But IMHO he screwed up. I blame half the actors and the director because ultimatly it's up to them to collaborate and inspire each other to produce the best.

    But the thing that really angers me is all the *excuses* GL puts up to defend it.

    "Portman's character has the least past so naturally she has a harder time to act with the character". "I wanted to have the dialogue to a throwback to the golden age of cinema".

    How many times have we seen a movie with *one* character that we know nothing of their past but by the end of the 1.5-2.0 hour we end up loving him/her? How many times has there been period pieces that have a throwback to dialogue that was actually good?

    But now I don't expect much anymore. Perhaps the essence of GL's dialogue talent in TPM, SW, ESB and ROTJ were better suited because the main "theme" of the movies were more attuned.
  5. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    "But the thing that really angers me is all the *excuses* GL puts up to defend it."

    I agree, its always the audiences fault for not getting his style, or understanding the symbolisms.

  6. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    Well I certainly liked the dialogue, understood it, and felt it fit within the context of the SW universe, so GL can't be totally off his rocker.
  7. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    I agree with Fox.

    What is so BAD about the love dialogue/acting between Anakin and Padmé?

    Nothing. I think they reflect how two people within that universe would have spoken and acted in that situation. They aren't supposed to be 20 and 24-year-olds in today's modern-day society. This is a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. It's called suspension of disbelief, people.
  8. Oakessteve Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 9, 1999
    star 6
    But disbelief can only be suspended so far, royalguard96. It helps if the actor delivering they're dialogue has total convinction to what they're saying, and as I said before, Hayden had that, but unfortunately, Natalie didn't, and in a love story, you need both actors convinction to the dialogue to make it work. In my opinion, of course.
  9. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    I concur Oaksteve.

    " They aren't supposed to be 20 and 24-year-olds in today's modern-day society."

    No one is saying they should be, but they should be relatable to 20 and 24-year-olds in today's modern-day society

  10. Haydens_MineNotYours Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2002
    I really don't see what is so bad about it. I for one, would rather have a guy say some of the things Anakin says to Padme than some of the things most guys say now. Have you people BEEN out lately?? I mean seriously. Some of the things guys say nowadays are atrociously unromantic.
    I walk into a store:
    The clerk says,"Nice butt."
    Do you see what I mean? how is THAT romantic? Honestly. Some girls are so lovesick they'll fall for ANYTHING a guy says to them, whether it's a physical compliment, or just a plain disrespectful comment just to find someone.Anakin is at least respectful to Padme. He tells her she is beautiful, but he doesn't make any disrespectful gestures to her physical appearance.
  11. Clonetrooper1000 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 3
    Rebel Scumb: "No one is saying they should be, but they should be relatable to 20 and 24-year-olds in today's modern-day society"

    They are not supposed to be completely relatable. This is Star Wars, it supposed to be escapist, not realistic.
  12. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    This is Star Wars, it supposed to be escapist, not realistic.

    Exactly.

    And I wonder how far belief was suspended in ESB when Han was frozen in an airtight slab of carbonite, yet lives. Or in ANH when Vader can nail Artoo in the X-Wing, but manages to miss the entire rest of the craft in the Death Star trench.

    My point being, this is an example of the PT being held to different standards than the OT. Supposed missteps in the PT are completely forgiven in similar instances in the OT.

    And as I've stated time and time again, these characters are experiencing feelings they've never felt before, and awkwardness is natural and expected in those types of situations.
  13. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    "And I wonder how far belief was suspended in ESB when Han was frozen in an airtight slab of carbonite, yet lives. Or in ANH when Vader can nail Artoo in the X-Wing, but manages to miss the entire rest of the craft in the Death Star trench."

    Your debating a whole sperate issue royalguard. I'm not saying its realistic that Vader can hit R2, I'm saying people can relate to losing a friend, the way C3P0 worries about R2s safety, about the threat of danger looming, growing nearer as vader moves in for the kill. The details of how these issues are presented are entirely that.


    We can't relate to the carbon freezing, but i'm sure everyone can relate to a loved one being take from them. This is the difference between plot and story, details and meaning, fact and truth.

    "They are not supposed to be completely relatable. This is Star Wars, it supposed to be escapist, not realistic."

    Relatable is in no way bound to realistic.

    You can have an entirelys urreal film that deals with entirely relatable issues.

    Love, loss, anger, fear, honour, truth, vengence, forgiveness, betrayll, life, death.

    These are all relatable issues that can be presented in any context or genre and be relatable, heck look at toy story, there's nothing realistic about toys going on adventrues and talking, but the emotions the characters feel are real and relatable.

    The problem with AOTC, IMHO, is that its all details, and lacks the issues underneath.
  14. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    If one actually listens to the meaning of the words Anakin speaks during the "fireside chat" scene, instead of spewing out criticisms of "bad acting" or "bad dialogue", one might actually find Anakin's internal struggle relatable. That is, if one is old enough to have ever had a crush on someone before...
  15. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    I was debating the relevant issue, actually. If people say the acting and dialogue was bad, and don't buy the "suspension of disbelief" argument, just so their dislike of the PT can be logically sustained, then said suspension of disbelief is at the center of the issue.

    You pointed out aspects of the OT many of us can relate to. And you're right about all of them. But I totally identified with Anakin throughout the film as it related to his feelings towards Padme. He was a desperate guy trying to win the heart of a girl he's loved and put on a pedestal for 10 years. The fireplace scene in particular is what drew me into the characters in the way I did with the OT, and to a lesser extent, TPM.

    EDIT: That is, if one is old enough to have ever had a crush on someone before...
    Well said. I've been in Anakin's position before. Pouring my heart out to a girl and have her respond in a cardboard fashion. It happens. It's realistic in its own way. Which is why I think some of the awkwardness in the dialogue was appropriate for the moment we were in within the story.


  16. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    "But I totally identified with Anakin throughout the film as it related to his feelings towards Padme. He was a desperate guy trying to win the heart of a girl he's loved and put on a pedestal for 10 years."

    Fair enough, ut it would help if we were given some understanding of why he loves her so much. I mean granted she's hot, but he fell for her inbetween the movies, the audience isn't really given a chance to fall for Padme, we are just told that Anakin has, the only explanation, she looks like an angel, being around her is intoxicating. We don't see her being sweet or fun so its hard for us to put ourselves in his place.
  17. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    We don't see her being sweet or fun so its hard for us to put ourselves in his place.

    From TPM:
    "I don't need this to remember you by. Many things will change when we reach the capital Annie. But my caring for you will remain."

    "We are sure her heart goes with you."

    "We owe you everything, Annie."

    The smile they give each other at the end parade.



    Those passages seem to convey sweetness from Padme to Anakin just fine.
  18. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    the smile is nice, the other parts are pretty stale IMHO, but either way is that really enough for someone to love someone for 10 years?

    Anyway, I mean more from an audience standpoint, when do we get to fall inlove with Padme?
  19. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    Anyway, I mean more from an audience standpoint, when do we get to fall inlove with Padme?

    So now the issue is that the audience has to fall in love with Padme? I thought Anakin was the one who had to fall in love with her.

    Also, the japor snippet conversation shows how much Anakin is looking to Padme for love and support, even if the form of the love is different in TPM compared to AOTC.
  20. The_Porridge_Boy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2001
    star 1
    Nothing. I think they reflect how two people within that universe would have spoken and acted in that situation. They aren't supposed to be 20 and 24-year-olds in today's modern-day society. This is a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. It's called suspension of disbelief, people

    They are not supposed to be completely relatable. This is Star Wars, it supposed to be escapist, not realistic.

    Royalguard96 & CloneTrooper1000: I think you two are missing a point. Love between two people isn't a "20 and 24-year-olds in today's modern-day society". It's a convention that been around since the beginning of humanity.

    The thing is, it doesn't matter if your in 18th century France, the days of the west or in a galaxy far far away....the story of love or any other relatable emotion; trancends setting, time or place.
    The fact remains that the "passion" of love isn't there. And that *isn't* a belief that you can suspend without losing quality.

    It's clouded by a poor presentation and has characters I feel they should be in a mental institution considering their choices and acts throughout the movie.

    Personally I think Hayden should have taken some acting lessons from Ewan's experience on Moulin Rouge.
  21. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    The fact remains that the "passion" of love isn't there.

    Presenting your opinion as fact is frowned upon here. I thought the passion of love was there. I believe I'm right. My opinion is the only one that matters to me, as your opinion should be the only one that matters to you.
  22. JenX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 3
    Okay, I'll suspend my desbelief about the ability to freeze Han Solo in carbonite.

    Cool! Great acting, great dialogue, great chemistry between the actors involved. It's exciting, it has tension..it's really good.


    Okay, I'll suspend my disbelief when it comes to improbabilities of an Anakin/Padme relationship.

    Wow. Natalie Portman's performance is still awful. Hayden's performance is still patchy. There is still a woeful lack of chemistry between the two participants. The dialogue is still bad. These characters are still dull and uninvolving.



  23. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    Thanks for proving a point I made earlier, JenX! :)
  24. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    "So now the issue is that the audience has to fall in love with Padme? I thought Anakin was the one who had to fall in love with her."

    yes, exactly. the audience has to figuratively fall in love with padme so that they can understand / empathize / relate to what is happening on the screen, the same way that they had to hate darth vader or care about han. its not like anyone is saying anything groundbreaking here. if a film fails to allow the audience to understand and empathize with the motivations of the characters, then the film has failed on the most basic level.
  25. JenX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 3
    Thanks for proving a point I made earlier, JenX!

    Happy to help!

    Just out of interest, what point did I help you to prove?

    "JenX knows her stuff"?

    "JenX won't let 6 pints of Guinness stop her from posting on this thread today"?

    "JenX sometimes types 'desbelief' instead of 'disbelief'"?

    The suspense is killing me! :)
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.