What is so BAD about the love dialogue/acting between Anakin and Padmé?

if a film fails to allow the audience to understand and empathize with the motivations of the characters, then the film has failed on the most basic level.

Very true. But that's the thing...the film didn't fail for me in that regard. Nor did it fail for millions of other people who love the film, despite the makeup of those who post in the prequel movie forums. I'm sorry it failed you. I feel fortunate.

Jen: scroll up in the thread, you'll see what I mean.

 

Sorry royalguard96, I can't see what you mean. I see you comment on suspension of disbelief, but I don't see what point I proved.

So, can you tell me please?

 

The one about the PT being held to a different standard than the OT, when comparing aspects such as story, acting quality, dialogue, etc.

Believe me, I know how easy it is to look at the OT through rose-colored glasses. But in my view, it's all Star Wars, and I accept it all equally as part of one epic story. I enjoy and accept the PT for what it is, I don't spend time tearing it down for what it isn't.

 

Anakin falling for Padme is right there on the screen for you. Open your eyes. In the fireplace scene, Padme is trying to HIDE her emotions. She doesn't want Anakin to know she has feelings for him. It's pretty obvious and all.

But you know what? I love how some folks act as if the Han and Leia fiasco is one of the great love stories of our time (neither is the Anakin and Padme one, for that matter). You want to talk about a rushed affair, look no further than Han and Leia. A few sly remarks from Han and people fall head over heals for him. Where's the buildup of Han and Leia falling in love? A few scenes in ANH? Please. I think the problem some folks have with the Anakin and Padme thing is not the love affair, but they just don't like these characters as much as Han. Well, that's just the way it is. Anakin and Padme are diplomatic, serious, while Han and Leia are free from the reigns of professionality. I, for one, see ALOT Of chemistry between Anakin and Padme in the film. If you don't, that's too bad.

 

"So now the issue is that the audience has to fall in love with Padme?"

Yes.

 

"Very true. But that's the thing...the film didn't fail for me in that regard."

im glad you enjoyed it, but i think the problem is, the film does not supply what is needed to help the viewer believe any of it.

i'll agree to disagree though, i totally understand your point.

 

The one about the PT being held to a different standard than the OT, when comparing aspects such as story, acting quality, dialogue, etc.

But I am holding the OT and the PT to the same standard. It's just that the OT tends to met that standard and the PT doesn't.


My view is that the prequels are Star Wars too, and that they are a part of one big story. But that doesn't make Natalie's acting good, or Hayden's character engaging, or the Anakin/Padme romance interesting.


Sorry. I haven't helped you after all

 

"I enjoy and accept the PT for what it is, I don't spend time tearing it down for what it isn't."

Even if it isn't well written, acted, or editted?

 

I think it is, RS.

Once again, just like in all B/G discussions, we're getting down to a matter of personal tastes and opinions.

No one can say the editing, writing and acting was factually good or bad in any film. Some people think it's good, others think it's bad.

I believe the acting in the PT is bad in some cases (Ric Olie, Capt Panaka) while in other areas, it's superb. I thought as a whole, the aggregate acting quality in AOTC was right on par with ESB as the best in the saga.

But I can't tell you that your beliefs are wrong. Just the same, my beliefs aren't wrong either.

 

All of those things are opinions. When I sit down to watch a SW film, I expect to be transported to another galaxy for two or two and a half hours. I don't pay attention to the editing or the acting. I have no film school experience, so those types of things usually don't stick out to me. There have been movies in the past where the bad acting has bothered me, but it has to be downright terrible for me to even notice. I don't see movies to critique them, I see movies to be entertained. Bad acting or bad editing every now and then doesn't bother me. I get caught up in the story, and with what is going on in the film.

When I watch AOTC, I don't see Hayden Christensen and Natalie Portman. Rather, I see Anakin Skywalker and Padme Amidala.

 

Here here JenX and Dr.E


"Anakin falling for Padme is right there on the screen for you. Open your eyes. In the fireplace scene"

So Anakin wasn't in love with her before that? then why did he act all creepy and leer at her? Why did he kiss her?

"Padme is trying to HIDE her emotions. She doesn't want Anakin to know she has feelings for him. It's pretty obvious and all."

But when did these feelings for him begin? Why does she feel that way about him, there's no inidication what so ever.

"I love how some folks act as if the Han and Leia fiasco is one of the great love stories of our time"

No one acts like that, I don't think there's aperson in the world who would say that the Han/Leia romance is one of the greatest of all time, not even by a long shot, just that its a heck of a lot better then the anakin/padme one.

"You want to talk about a rushed affair, look no further than Han and Leia. A few sly remarks from Han and people fall head over heals for him. Where's the buildup of Han and Leia falling in love?"

In ANH, there is immediate friction and sexual tension between them fromthe moemtn they meet, they get on each others nerves under each others skins. Like i said, its not the greatest love of all time, but its a god enough, it got the job done, it started out msotly as a chemistry thing and at the end of ESB they realized it was more.

"I think the problem some folks have with the Anakin and Padme thing is not the love affair, but they just don't like these characters as much as Han."

Well thats beside the point, the love affair is still far fetched and unrelatable even if Anakin wa smy favorite SW character of all time.

"Anakin and Padme are diplomatic, serious, while Han and Leia are free from the reigns of professionality."

That has nothing to do with it, once again, style and quality are two seperate issues.

 

I would say the acting is fine, but the editing is what is terrible. It's fine the last half of the movie, but the beginning and early scenes with Padme and Anaking seem a bit jerky to me. After reading the script for AoTC I loved the entire scenes but wonder why parts got left on the cutting room floor when they really flushed out Anakins and Padmes romance.

 

I certainly don't see movies to critique them either YJ, I jsut wnat to be transported for 2 hours as well, and it does happen a fair amount of times. But some times the faults are so glaringly obvious that they are impossible to ignore.

"No one can say the editing, writing and acting was factually good or bad in any film."

Why not?

 

Because, RS, as I said just a few minutes ago, it all comes down to a matter of personal tastes and opinions. Stuff like this is so subjective, it's nearly impossible to make blanket, factual statments about its quality.

I've made a lot of quality comments, backed up by facts, and I don't get any "good post" compliments

 

Good posts, royalguard!

 

I concur with the honorable foxbatkiller. Well done, rg96!

 

"Anakin falling for Padme is right there on the screen for you. Open your eyes. In the fireplace scene"

So Anakin wasn't in love with her before that? then why did he act all creepy and leer at her? Why did he kiss her?

Uhm, you took my words out of context. I didn't say Anakin fell for Padme IN THE FIREPLACE SCENE. You cut out the rest of what I said, which was: In the fireplace scene, Padme is trying to HIDE her emotions.

But when did these feelings for him begin? Why does she feel that way about him, there's no inidication what so ever.

Sure there is. Right from the very beginning of the film. The way she looks at him, avoids his every advance like she doesn't care. You can tell that she does. And why does she feel this way? Well, maybe she's ATTRACTED to him. That can happen for no astounding reason. Just like Leia - why did she fall for Han? What was THE reason? Nobody ever questioned that.

In ANH, there is immediate friction and sexual tension between them fromthe moemtn they meet, they get on each others nerves under each others skins. Like i said, its not the greatest love of all time, but its a god enough, it got the job done, it started out msotly as a chemistry thing and at the end of ESB they realized it was more.

"Good enough", eh? Well, using that line of thinking, the Anakin and Padme love affair is good enough. I didn't see any indication in ANH that Leia fell for Han. Not even an inkling of her pretending not to be interested, like Padme did with Anakin. And then all of a sudden, in the beginning of TESB, she's interested in him and flirtatious. Come now, let's not say this wasn't rushed.

Well thats beside the point, the love affair is still far fetched and unrelatable even if Anakin wa smy favorite SW character of all time.

Liking these characters might play a huge role in someone not accepting the love story. Han is obviously a favorite with many fans (and non-fans), and I think that's why the Han/Leia affair is loved by many. If you think a Padme is cold and lifeless, that will have an effect on your acceptance of the love affair.

"Anakin and Padme are diplomatic, serious, while Han and Leia are free from the reigns of professionality."

That has nothing to do with it, once again, style and quality are two seperate issues.

That has everything to do with it. Folks thinking the love scenes were too stiff and serious, not as "free" as the Han and Leia ones, there's an obvious reason why.

I'll also add what else did you expect Padme and Anakin to do to show that they had feelings for each other? Jump in bed? There's enough chemistry in the meadow scene, dinner scene, and throughout the latter half of the film to add weight to their love for each other.

 

Well said, YYB. AOTC establishes their reconnection, then their chemistry, then revealing the feelings they have for one another in that order.

And thanks, fox and JM

 

"Because, RS, as I said just a few minutes ago, it all comes down to a matter of personal tastes and opinions. Stuff like this is so subjective, it's nearly impossible to make blanket, factual statments about its quality."

I'm not sure actors, editors and writers would agree. I think these things are quantifiable and can be rated based on craft.

I mean if I play gold with Tiger woods, I might make some really sloppy move and get a hole in one. Technically I faired well, but I think he could probably point out all sorts of flaws in my technique, same is true for anything, there are good ways to do it and bad.

 

"I've made a lot of quality comments, backed up by facts, and I don't get any "good post" compliments"

Sorry dude, I've complimented some your posts in the past, didn't eman to neglect you of recent, your doing good, keep up the good work

 

"Sure there is. Right from the very beginning of the film. The way she looks at him, avoids his every advance like she doesn't care. You can tell that she does."

I never read it that way, just that she was creeped out. My bad I suppose.

"And why does she feel this way? Well, maybe she's ATTRACTED to him. That can happen for no astounding reason. Just like Leia - why did she fall for Han? What was THE reason? Nobody ever questioned that."

I dunno, one seemd realistic, the other didn't.

""Good enough", eh? Well, using that line of thinking, the Anakin and Padme love affair is good enough."

Not in my eyes.

"And then all of a sudden, in the beginning of TESB, she's interested in him and flirtatious. Come now, let's not say this wasn't rushed. "

She acts the same in ANH as she does at the start of esb

"Liking these characters might play a huge role in someone not accepting the love story. Han is obviously a favorite with many fans (and non-fans), and I think that's why the Han/Leia affair is loved by many."

I suppose, I'm not a big Han fan some I'm the wrong person to ask.

"If you think a Padme is cold and lifeless, that will have an effect on your acceptance of the love affair. "

definitly, she's my least favorite SW character at the moment.

"That has everything to do with it. Folks thinking the love scenes were too stiff and serious, not as "free" as the Han and Leia ones, there's an obvious reason why."

Then why don't peopel complain about LOTR being to stiff, or shaespear, or jane austin?

"I'll also add what else did you expect Padme and Anakin to do to show that they had feelings for each other? Jump in bed? "

No, flirtaious glances, doing things that would win someone over, either heroic or noble or kind. Certainly not slaughtering children or making pares float or acting liek an ice queen.

"There's enough chemistry in the meadow scene, dinner scene, and throughout the latter half of the film to add weight to their love for each other."

I liek the meadow scene, but I hate the dinner scene. I thinkt he family scene was perfect but it got cut.

My other problem is that nothing else is happening in these scenes, theya re jsut scenes to build the romance, but nothing else is happening, theya re jsut sitting in a field talking about their feelings.

 

I mean if I play gold with Tiger woods, I might make some really sloppy move and get a hole in one. Technically I faired well, but I think he could probably point out all sorts of flaws in my technique, same is true for anything, there are good ways to do it and bad.

Very interesting analogy. But the bottom line is, you accomplished your ultimate goal on that hole, which is to finish it in one shot.

How could this analogy apply to AOTC? Well, we could measure ultimate accomplishment in critical praise, award nominations, box office draw, any number of quantifiable standards.

But when it comes to works of art - which the medium of film certainly is - the issue becomes much more subjective. In golf, your success can be measured by actual statistics. Standards for film quality are much more spread out and harder to apply an actual standard of success to.

But therein lies the enjoyment of discussing the merits of the films. I'm glad this thread has stayed as civil as it has to this point, and hope it keeps up like this.

 

"And then all of a sudden, in the beginning of TESB, she's interested in him and flirtatious. Come now, let's not say this wasn't rushed. "

She acts the same in ANH as she does at the start of esb

No, she doesn't. Not even close. Even at the END of ANH, there was no indication Leia had serious feelings for Han.

Then why don't peopel complain about LOTR being to stiff, or shaespear, or jane austin?

Huh? What does LOTR have to do with this? What I'm comparing Anakin and Padme to is Han and Leia, which makes sense, since they're both in the context of Star Wars. Besides, I've heard many mention about how much they hated the LOVE STORY in LOTR, but I'm not going to bring it up.

No, flirtaious glances, doing things that would win someone over, either heroic or noble or kind. Certainly not slaughtering children or making pares float or acting liek an ice queen.

You mean to tell me Anakin didn't do ANYTHING heroic or kind or noble in TPM? Watch that film again. I think you missed some MAJOR plot points there. As for flirtatious glances, you must've missed those too in AOTC, presumably the dinner and meadow scenes. Or how about when Padme smiles at Anakin when she calls him that "little boy on Naboo". There's chemistry between the two splattered all over AOTC. It's ashame you missed it.

My other problem is that nothing else is happening in these scenes, theya re jsut scenes to build the romance, but nothing else is happening, theya re jsut sitting in a field talking about their feelings.

Yes, scenes to build up the romance. To make their marriage as BELIEVABLE as possible in a 2 hr and 20 min film. With so much material to cover, George did a fine job with the love story. "Good enough", as you like to put it.

 

I didn't see any indication in ANH that Leia fell for Han.

Exactly.In ANH,it seems that Leia prefered Luke much more,in my opinion.

But when did these feelings for him begin? Why does she feel that way about him, there's no inidication what so ever.

Sure there is. Right from the very beginning of the film. The way she looks at him, avoids his every advance like she doesn't care. You can tell that she does.

I agree with you,YodaYodaBinks.When Anakin said "... grown more beautiful",there's fire in Padme's eyes.

 

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