What is so BAD about the love dialogue/acting between Anakin and Padmé?

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by tun_dot_com, Mar 9, 2003.

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  1. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    "But therein lies the enjoyment of discussing the merits of the films. I'm glad this thread has stayed as civil as it has to this point, and hope it keeps up like this."

    I'll second that Royalguard
  2. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    "No, she doesn't. Not even close. Even at the END of ANH, there was no indication Leia had serious feelings for Han."

    I didn't say serious, but their sexual chemistry and getting each others nerves is pretty consistent from "maybe you'd like it better in your cell your highness" all the way up to "you said you wanted to be around when I made a mistake, this might be it sweetheart"

    "Huh? What does LOTR have to do with this?"

    Because it is written in a similar mediavel style of speech, akin to what GL wrote for AOTC.

    "What I'm comparing Anakin and Padme to is Han and Leia, which makes sense, since they're both in the context of Star Wars."

    Yes but they are two different romances from two differnt eras, they shouldn't be exactly alike.

    "You mean to tell me Anakin didn't do ANYTHING heroic or kind or noble in TPM?"

    Yeah, when he was 8, and padme was 15, yoru telling me this is when they feell in love? Thats sick. ANd if she cared so much for him why had they not seen each other in 10 yeas, they are both oczy with Palpatine, you'd think they'd bump into eachother from time to time.

    "Watch that film again. I think you missed some MAJOR plot points there. As for flirtatious glances, you must've missed those too in AOTC, presumably the dinner and meadow scenes."

    The meadow scene is good, the dinner seen is terrible IMHO. And a lack of character close ups make it hard to discern what they are feeling, Are you saying the trick with the pare is what won her over?

    "Or how about when Padme smiles at Anakin when she calls him that "little boy on Naboo"."

    How is that flirting, she's cutting him down to size, saying she only sees him as a little boy.

    "Yes, scenes to build up the romance. To make their marriage as BELIEVABLE as possible in a 2 hr and 20 min film. With so much material to cover, George did a fine job with the love story. "Good enough", as you like to put it."

    Yes but it would be more believable if they were doing something. Even GL said a scene should never serve just one purpose, as amny thing should be happening as possible.

    When people go on dates do they just sit and spill their guts? no, they do thigns, they go places, they bond while doing things, bowling, eatting, going to a movie, dancing. It would've been great to see them go on a date. Or it could've been played the other way, they could be on an adventure, like Han and Leia, they could be brought together by all the danger and excitement around them.
  3. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    "I didn't see any indication in ANH that Leia fell for Han.

    Exactly.In ANH,it seems that Leia prefered Luke much more,in my opinion."


    well to quote Leia "I guess you don't know everything about women yet" ;) :p
  4. SlowLearner Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 3
    "When people go on dates do they just sit and spill their guts? no, they do thigns, they go places, they bond while doing things, bowling, eatting, going to a movie, dancing. It would've been great to see them go on a date. Or it could've been played the other way, they could be on an adventure, like Han and Leia, they could be brought together by all the danger and excitement around them. "

    LOL...I can't help but chuckle at the thought of Anakin and Padme going on a bowling date. [face_laugh]

    Although GL didn't show them going bowling or dancing or watching a movie, he did show them going on picnics and dining together. Don't they qualify as dates?

    And not only did they bond while enjoying each others' company, they also went thru tragedy and tough times together (Shmi's death and the first Clone War battle). Don't these instances involve danger and excitement?
  5. Clonetrooper1000 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 3
    Actually, ANH the way Leia looks at Han in the end ceremony is a hint that she is beginning to take to him. However, it is not until the beginning of ESB that we realise Leia definetely does have feelings for Han.

    Likewise the main love story of the prequel trilogy was begun early in the second film.
  6. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    "It all comes down to a matter of personal tastes and opinions."

    I've said this before, but it bears repeating: No. ;)

    Filmmaking takes talent, charimsa, technical know-how, market savvy, timing and luck. To assert that any schmoe can pick up a camera and make a film just as good as any other is to hold the Star Wars saga equal to, say, Battlefield Earth.

    Just as not everyone can draw like a Disney animator, write like a bestselling novelist, or compose like John Williams, not everyone can write, direct or edit their way to the Oscars.

    Filmmaking is an art, but it's a highly technical art, and like any other, its practitioners vary enormously in talent and dedication. Thus, all films are not created equal.
  7. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    "LOL...I can't help but chuckle at the thought of Anakin and Padme going on a bowling date."

    Yeah i couldn't resist that reference.

    Rememeber when the first GL SELECT photo was released and it was the american graffit diner witht he gonzo speeder pulled up to it and everyone thought there would be a scene of Anakin taking PAdme to a coruscant diner to get a blu milk shake?

    Stupid idea and yet cool all at the same time.
  8. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    "Filmmaking takes talent, charimsa, technical know-how, market savvy, timing and luck. To assert that any schmoe can pick up a camera and make a film just as good as any other is to hold the Star Wars saga equal to, say, Battlefield Earth.

    Just as not everyone can draw like a Disney animator, write like a bestselling novelist, or compose like John Williams, not everyone can write, direct or edit their way to the Oscars.

    Filmmaking is an art, but it's a highly technical art, and like any other, its practitioners vary enormously in talent and dedication. Thus, all films are not created equal."


    Thanks for putting that better then I ever could.

    Here's another example, my fiance loves watching reality shows, personally I don't. I think they are a load of hooey, thats where my personal opinion/taste come into affect.

    However, I can completely admit that survivor is a very well made show, the production values are excellent the episodes are well crafted to keep you tuning in each week, there's plenty of red herrings, you get involved in the characters, and the pacing is excelent. This is a matter of craft, that I'm not into reality shows is irrelavant, and does not change the fact that the show is really good, and very well made, and that indeed talented people are invovled in its making.
  9. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    Thus, all films are not created equal.

    Exactly. Which is why the six episode Star Wars Saga will be watched and rewatched for many years by countless viewers, many of which have not even been born yet. At the same time, lots of other movies will be forgotten and quite possibly rarely ever heard from or seen again...
  10. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    Filmmaking takes talent, charimsa, technical know-how, market savvy, timing and luck. To assert that any schmoe can pick up a camera and make a film just as good as any other is to hold the Star Wars saga equal to, say, Battlefield Earth.

    Just as not everyone can draw like a Disney animator, write like a bestselling novelist, or compose like John Williams, not everyone can write, direct or edit their way to the Oscars.

    Filmmaking is an art, but it's a highly technical art, and like any other, its practitioners vary enormously in talent and dedication. Thus, all films are not created equal.


    There was an actual point to all that relating to the topic at hand?
  11. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    I thought that was a well-written and relevant point by Darth Geist. Not everything can simply fall under the protective blanket of "subjective opinion". There are certain standards of excellence agreed upon by many, otherwise there would be no chance for artists to challenge and cultivate their skills. And in order to do that, they need standards to aspire to, like the Sistine Chapel or a novel by Dostoevsky.

    To be fair, if one enjoyed the Padme/Anakin dialogue, to a certain degree it is subjective. One is not bull-headed or blind for liking it. But I think it should be respected if a person didn't like it (or thinks it's just downright awful.) And their reasons for disliking it can be valid (they've seen/read/heard better examples, elsewhere.)
  12. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    "There was an actual point to all that relating to the topic at hand?"

    Simply put, the idea that no film is inherently better or worse than any other is misguided.
  13. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    Once again, I'm going this alone.....

    You guys missed my point. We were debating not entire films, but small aspects of them. Like the acting quality as an example. In the case of AOTC, some people didn't like it. Myself and many, many others did, believe it or not. By definition, this makes the issue of acting quality subjective and not quantitative, because two people can see the same thing and have different reactions to it. This argument applies to other aspects of the film we're talking about in here as well.

  14. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    "We were debating not entire films, but small aspects of them."

    It's the same principle. To say that no way of pacing a scene/delivering a line/framing a shot/etc is objectively good or bad is to praise the ending of the Planet of the Apes remake, the ending they expressly stated was meant as a stupid joke, as legitimate storytelling.
  15. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    I guess I'll just remain happy in my ignorance then [face_plain]
  16. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    Hey, no hard feelings.

    //hands royalguard a beer
  17. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    Now, of course there's still plenty of room for debate, but such debates can and should go much deeper than "I think this" vs. "I think that." Once we start getting into "I think this because..." territory, things get much more interesting, and stop grinding to a halt every time someone says, "Well, that's just your opinion."

    See what I'm saying?
  18. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    One of the things that may subconsciously be affecting people's take on AOTC's love story is the fact that there were no sex scenes involved. Anakin and Padme fell in love without having a sex scene during the course of the movie. I submit to you all that the vast majority of movies today show love developing between two people by filming a such a scene. This is so common these days that it is accepted as a means to develop a relationship. GL didn't want to do this with AOTC, so instead he conveyed the love between Anakin and Padme through the beautiful backdrops of Naboo and 1930s serialized dialogue. It's not surprising that this more conservative way of expressing love might conflict with generation "X"ers.
  19. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    "I submit to you all that the vast majority of movies today show love developing between two people by filming a such a scene."

    There's usually sex involved, I agree, although I wouldn't say that it's typically the only foundation for contemporary film romance. But you do have a point: Physical chemistry is a primary factor in drawing people together these days, and the lack of it--aside from that little tease by the fireplace--may well alienate a viewer who's used to that.

    Still, even many of the great romances of the 30s and early 40s had a physical level; Clark Gable constantly flaunted his sex appeal in front of Claudette Golbert in It Happened One Night, and Casablanca's (off-camera) sex scene was originally so strongly implied that the PCA, Hollywood's former censorship bureau, demanded that they water it down considerably.

    In a typical 30s romance, our hero won his love interest over with his manliness, wit, charm and resourcefulness, whereupon she surrendered her will to him forever. (Case in point: "You're gonna have to do the thinking for both of us!" -Ingrid Bergman, Casablanca.) That's not exactly what we have in AOTC (aside from Padme's rush to marry Anakin, which seems more than a bit out of character for her); if George was trying to emulate that style, he didn't quite achieve it, and he made the effort at the cost of alienating many of his fans.
  20. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    "Exactly. Which is why the six episode Star Wars Saga will be watched and rewatched for many years by countless viewers, many of which have not even been born yet."

    except for the bad episodes. :p

    also re: the sex issue, Han and Leia did not have to have sex for the romance to work.
  21. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    "One of the things that may subconsciously be affecting people's take on AOTC's love story is the fact that there were no sex scenes involved"

    No, I think sex in a SW film is a very bad idea, the only way I could see it working is very heavily implied, we see Anakin and Padme kissing, cut to the sun setting and sand dunes blowing the wind, sort of a little montage, like when the sun sets on coruscnat in TPM. The cut to later when its night, or the next morning and have Padme in a night gown or something, and the tow of them very cuddly, anything more then that would be very un-SW.

    And the sex would have to be when the twins were concieved.
  22. Clonetrooper1000 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 3
    STAR WARS: EPISODE VI: EMANUELLE ON CORUSCANT

    I think from the way Portman was talking it sounded as if her character may be pregnant when the film begins.
  23. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    Rebel Scumb,
    I was not suggesting that AOTC or any other SW movie have or should have a sex scene. I was just pointing out a difference between AOTC's love story and other love stories in movies today.

    Edit: Oh, should mention this too-- I just got back from a college film class, and the professor was talking about the effect directors want to create by having a completely dark background behind the actor(s). By doing this directors want the audience to feel uncomfortable.
  24. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    SWfan2002 makes a good point about the sex scenes. Our expectations of movies are largely based on other movies around the same time. The fact that most romances today involve sex scenes and that AOTC did not have one could be part of the reason a lot of people didn't like or believe the romance. I don't think there were nearly as many sex scenes in movies when ESB was released.
  25. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    "I think from the way Portman was talking it sounded as if her character may be pregnant when the film begins."

    Its pretty much the only way it can work as far as I can see. Anakin knocked her up 9 months before the movie starts then has been away at war and has not seen her. Then he gets captured by dooku after the last clone war battle and taken to sidious.

    Obi-wan goes to tell Padme, and discovers that she is pregnant. The rest is pretty straight forward.

    Something tells me that a)portman will have far less screentime in ep3 b)anakin and padme will share at most one scene together
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