Oceania What is the deal with anti-capitalists?

^ Wise choice, Gatherer!!!!

It is true though, so many young people think it is cool to be a lefty. It's probably because, when you are young, your parents pay for everything, and you don't pay taxes yet, and you don't need to worry about money.

It is funny, some of the protestors come from quite affluent families. When they want to, they can just rock up to their parents and aks 'can I have $100' and they get it.

I love my parents very much, and am very greatful to them, for a very important lesson they taught me. It's about being careful with money. Until I was 18 and got a job, I only recieved $10 a week, and that had to cover clothes, and everything, and this taught me to be so cautious. Even now I pay for transport, clothes etc and i recieve very little from my parents, and I am very greatful for that.

 

Hey Marvin why don't you just create your own party?

 

I already am in one, the Libs!!!!

And remember to vote for me

 

And lets not forget those morons out at Woomera who are tearing down fences That almost borders on treason in my mind.

Anyway, back to those anti-capitalists. If these anti-capitalists hate our system so much, then why are they living here? No one is forcing them. I propose a swap. Lets move them to some Communist country and, in exchange, we'll take an equal amount of their citizens. I'm sure there wil plenty of people in those countries who will be more than willing to swap and live in our capitalist state.

EDIT: Welcome to the dark side, Gatherer

 

Dammit, Marvin, the Libs better get in power next year...

 

Maybe we should send them to Cuba for an exchange visit?

Let them see how much people enjoy living in an anti-capitalist country?

My money says they'll be fleeing to the U.S the first night with the rest of Cuba.

Or maybe send them to Afghanistan?

 

And lets leave them there.......

 

An old saying comes to mind...

"Better for people to think you are a <insert any derogative term here> than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

This also applies to those who protest violently, illogically or childishly.

 

Nah.

If people are gonna think I'm an idiot, I don't want them guessing, I want them to know just what kind of an idiot I am!

 

read "No Logo" by Naomi Klein.

 

I respect peoples right to non-violent protest but it seems to me that provoking police in an attemp to sensationalise there plight is just a tad hypocritical. Also many of these protesters are just jumping on the bandwagon and actually don't fully understand the issues that they're protesting about.

I by no means want to see the distuction of capatalism, I rather enjoy my modern life-style. We wouldn't be able to have such meaningful conversations as this with people from all over the country without companies like microsft or IBM.

What I do believe is that many companies and governments should develop more of a social conseance.

We are very lucky to live in a country like Australia which has some form of a 'safety net'when people fall on hard times (I realise that we do have homeless people in Australia but it does not even aproach Americas level of poverty).

America has gained much of it's power by 'using up' other countries such as Mexico and many times it seems that their credos is 'protect your own'. There's alot of third world countries paying back loans to America where they can't even meet the annual interest payments and keep incurring more and more debt, alot of these countries have already payed back their debts a couple times over. If America were to reduce or remove the interest from these loans we could hope to see some positive change in the world over the next 10-20 years.

I understand why many of these protesters are protesting about and I respect their determination to stand up for their beliefs but they do seem to have an anoying habit of seeing all these issues in black & white, life's more complicated than that.

that's my two cents.

 

Not even black and white - they just see everything in black.

(Economics joke, that one).


Maybe someone should sit them down and watch "Ghandi"? Show them how much you can achieve through PEACEFUL protest?


Btw, there was a poll at NineMSN about the May Day protests - about 14000 people thought the protesters were just troublemakers, as opposed to only 3000 people who supported them.

Now isn't the idea to increase public support, not turn the public against you?

Something's gotta be going wrong there.

 

*In a Helen Lovejoy voice*

"Oh, won't somebody think of the horses!"

 

Mayday protests are supposed to be about workers rights anyway, something worth while that didn't get any attention cos of the other protests.

 

Mayday protests are supposed to be about workers rights anyway, something worth while that didn't get any attention cos of the other protests

That was my biggest problem with the protests (aside from the violence etc) - I honestly didn't even know what the actual purpose of the protests were.

 

^ Easy - to cause as much mayhem as possible and to get on the news. Both goals were accomplished.

 

One of the things the anti-capitalists whinge about is how people in other countries don't get paid as much by corporations as they do in for example Australia.

But the pay they recieve is actually very good pay in comparison to what other worjkers in the same country get so corporations DO have a social justice agenda

 

I reckon that most of the folk who were at those protests were rebelling against the system, after all it's the easiest target for anyone who is limited to the university newsrag.

If they had a valid target, and actually though about the way they protest against it, they'd get further in one month than they have in the last 40 years

On a side note, we're having a action day next monday protesting further cuts to IT department of uws macarthur, expected turnout, about 150, mainly cos the IT students don't give a stuff about it and the art students don't give a stuff about the IT department. Makes you think, don't it?

 

If it wasn't for people forcing change, and rebelling against authority every now and then, the Western world wouldn't be what it is today and we wouldn't be enjoying the freedoms we do today.

The main problem here is too many people actually believe that what they're fed by commercial media is the whole truth.

 

^ People should be responsible enough to watch news programs and read papers and know that what they are seeing is slightly distorted and things omitted.

And the people who do change thigns for the better are people like Ghandi and Nelson Mandela.

The smelly trots who smash the windows at McDonalds stores are there solely to cause trouble, I really doubt they are there for genuine social change, they just want to cause trouble more than anything, and use social values as some sort of a pathetic excuse.

 

I must admit, there are two types of people who attend protests.

The Intelligensia who truly feel there is an underlying social injustice to our world that we MUST rectify,

and then there are the 'professional protesters/morons' who give us such a bad name.

I will offer rebuttal in as much of an order as my memory at this hour will allow so bear with me.

Firstly, the arguement 'don't fight it unless you shun it' may sound nice, but it is quite illogical.

You CANT escape materialism in our society. I could go and live in the sticks, but the struggle isn't for MY benefit, but for the worlds.

The nature of capitalism involves an almost neccessary segregation of classes ranging from rich to poor. Now this is obvious, and whilst its nice to praise the system at the top, at the bottom it isn't so rosy.

In America, Australia etc it's great to talk about our 'standard of living' because due to globalisation, we have managed to internationalise our capitalism. For those who do Chemistry, its like shifting the equilibrium of a reversable reaction. We have put all the Rich into our countries, and shunted the poor end of the scale into other third world countries and less socio-economically viable countries. (Which the US goes on to bomb or invade if they complain.)

Furthermore, Capitalism isn't sustainable. By its very nature (supply and demand) the almighty dollar has precedence over all other things - at times even human life - and the accumulation of wealth is a point of pride, not shame.

President Bush (the most powerful man in the world) is pushing to allow drilling for oil in Alaska, a pristine wilderness which contains some species exculsive to the area. Yet the demand for oil, fuel and petrol is so great, we will consume any and all to feed our addiction.

Greed is a virtue, humility is shunned.

Why?

Because it is easier that way. It's easy to sit back and say 'this system works best' when we are licking the cremé off the top of the cake, forgetting the throng of starving poverty striken children who are leaping at the table hoping for a crumb.

I won't try and turn this into a sermon - as it is apparant most of you are ardent liberals (such an ironic label) and are in favour of corrupt policies of greed and class oppression - but do not dismiss my words as simply rhetoric.

Think on them, look at the world, and Embrace Truth.

Good night all.

 

Alright, fess up; who let PoT out of his cage again?

Y'know, PoT, if your arguments weren't filled with self-righteous dribble, they might actually be worth listening too. Unfortunate

 

The nature of capitalism involves an almost neccessary segregation of classes ranging from rich to poor. Now this is obvious, and whilst its nice to praise the system at the top, at the bottom it isn't so rosy.

There are different classes in society. There always have been. There always will be. Get over it! I promise you right now, that I am nowhere enar the top of the 'system' but I am not complaining, because I am fully aware that even people at the bottom can use the system to their benefit. It requires pateince and hard work but there is no reason you or I can not become Bill Gates someday.

In America, Australia etc it's great to talk about our 'standard of living' because due to globalisation, we have managed to internationalise our capitalism.

By globalising capitalism we have brought new dimensions to the world. People in third world countries have the opportunity to gain new skills and earn a wage. And new technologies are introduced to their nations. And they have jobs. Remmeber - the alternative to having a job is NOT having a job.

Which the US goes on to bomb or invade if they complain.

That is complete bull **** and you know it mister. And the whole topic of US Foreign Policy is somethign for a separate thread altogether.

Furthermore, Capitalism isn't sustainable. By its very nature (supply and demand) the almighty dollar has precedence over all other things - at times even human life - and the accumulation of wealth is a point of pride, not shame.

It isn't sustainable? Show me some god-dammed proof! Look at ANY Liberal-Democratic country. They are wealthy, because they are free! Look at communism - it failed! The twentieth century is testament to that.

Because it is easier that way. It's easy to sit back and say 'this system works best' when we are licking the cremé off the top of the cake, forgetting the throng of starving poverty striken children who are leaping at the table hoping for a crumb.

This system does work best. Ask anyone who has a job thanks to any multinational corporation.

 

The Intelligensia who truly feel there is an underlying social injustice to our world that we MUST rectify

Which will never, IMO, be rectified.

You CANT escape materialism in our society. I could go and live in the sticks, but the struggle isn't for MY benefit, but for the worlds.

The nature of capitalism involves an almost neccessary segregation of classes ranging from rich to poor. Now this is obvious, and whilst its nice to praise the system at the top, at the bottom it isn't so rosy.

In America, Australia etc it's great to talk about our 'standard of living' because due to globalisation, we have managed to internationalise our capitalism. For those who do Chemistry, its like shifting the equilibrium of a reversable reaction. We have put all the Rich into our countries, and shunted the poor end of the scale into other third world countries and less socio-economically viable countries. (Which the US goes on to bomb or invade if they complain.)

Unfortunately, you don't understand globalisation. Capitalism was never 'ours' to share. It isn't an 'entity' we can pass around. Globalisation is the opening of borders to free trade and cultural barriers. While it may look, on the surface, as simply allowing the flow of Americanisation, you may not realise that many poorer and repressed countries welcome this. Besides, Globalisation is directly alleviating poverty and unemployment in third world nations. I can show you the figures, if you'd like.

Furthermore, Capitalism isn't sustainable. By its very nature (supply and demand) the almighty dollar has precedence over all other things - at times even human life - and the accumulation of wealth is a point of pride, not shame.

Well, it's bloody more sustainable than Communism/Socialism, that's for sure. Why? Humans are not perfect creatures. Ego is what makes us human, (among other things), and ensures that Capitalism is the only working system for us.

President Bush (the most powerful man in the world) is pushing to allow drilling for oil in Alaska, a pristine wilderness which contains some species exculsive to the area. Yet the demand for oil, fuel and petrol is so great, we will consume any and all to feed our addiction.

That Bill has since been overturned.

Greed is a virtue, humility is shunned.

Why?

Because it is easier that way. It's easy to sit back and say 'this system works best' when we are licking the cremé off the top of the cake, forgetting the throng of starving poverty striken children who are leaping at the table hoping for a crumb.

And what are YOU and your idealistic crap going to do about it?

I won't try and turn this into a sermon - as it is apparant most of you are ardent liberals (such an ironic label) and are in favour of corrupt policies of greed and class oppression - but do not dismiss my words as simply rhetoric.

Done.

 

The thing is, it is impossible to try to form a society on an ideal that is totally inconsistent with human nature, and that is socialism.

Human being are greedy and selfish and no amount of propaganda will ever chnage that, and it is pointless to even conceive trying.

The USSR was bult on a Socialist ideal, and look what that turned into. Millions dead by Stalin, and by other Soviet leaders. Economic disaster because of the inneffectivness of communism.

Socialism is simply a non-human concept, and to force somethign like that onto people can only result in grave vioaltions of liberty.

Capitalism, on the other hand, is a system where both parties benefit because of each one's desire to benefit from gains from trade. That system works very well, it is unbeleivable that anyone would dispute that. After all, would a person in a third world country take up a job with Nike if they thought they would be worse off?