What is the defence between a Dark Jedi and the Sith?

Actually the EU bends(and lfl fits every event ever mentioned by them into it) around what the movies say, not what GL says. GL comments are nebulous and change from interview to interview.

The annotated screen play that was mentioned above had comments from lucas himself as well. There commments are just as valid as any other comment.

As usual no matter how many socks you create or how many times will be banned, you are completely wrong. One of these days you will get an IP ban for your shennagins.

 

GL didn't say this in an interview, he had Brooks say it in TPM novel.

 

What GL says in interviews are more valid than 2nd-hand EU movie novelizations. Even then he contradicts himself.

Lucas said that lifting objects is of the darkside. Leads to the darkside. But lo and behold he shows yoda teaching luke to lift objects.

Either that was a contradiction, or Yoda was evil and teaching luke to be a darksider.

 

By the way an upcoming Prequel bridge comic has a new Dark Jedi in it.

"Before the Episode II excitement begins, Vilmarh Grahrk has to get to the end of his bewildering tale, as told in the pages of the ongoing Star Wars comic. This shady grifter's reputation is becoming untarnished, what with word of him hooking up with the Jedi Quinlan Vos. Villie sets the record straight, explaining how he defeated a Dark Jedi, and why he took Vos on as his apprentice. The conclusion of "The Devaronian Version" appears in Star Wars #41, by John Ostrander, Davidé Fabbri and Christian Dalla Vacchia, with cover art by Kilian Plunkett. It is scheduled for release on April 17"

So LFL hasn't gotten rid of dark jedi, and they are another thing different than sith. Fully and completly endorsed by LFL and it's editors. Which has to go through permission like any other star wars story to be allowed to go to print.

That comic doesn't go on sell tell right about the time AOTC is in the theaters. Like LFL has said all things have to be authorized by lucas or they won't be allowed to be printed. You declared before "that they wouldn't have anymore dark jedi stories anymore because GL said so",(but you know nothing and continue to lie through your teeth). So like useal you have no credibility.

 

Did Luke use the darkside in the ROTJ? I don't think he did. But what do you guys think? Luke shows the same anger in "The Last Command" When Master C-Both hurt his sister Leia. If Luke did use the dark side in either cases, then why is he a Jedi Master?

Was Master C-Both a Sith person or just a dark jedi in the Thrwan series?

 

"Did Luke use the darkside in the ROTJ? I don't think he did. But what do you guys think?"

Well, he uses the choke darkside power on a couple of gamoreans, and contemplates how it could get him closer to the darkside. Near the begging of the rotj novelization.

As well, the ROTJ novel explicetly says he gave into his anger and touched the darkside when he vicisously started beating on his father's arm with is sabre.

"Luke shows the same anger in "The Last Command" When Master C-Both hurt his sister Leia. If Luke did use the dark side in either cases, then why is he a Jedi Master?"

Interesting question.

"Was Master C-Both a Sith person or just a dark jedi in the Thrwan series?"

Dark Jedi, officially(It was the term in the novel themeselves as I remember). Jaeger's credibility is shot so don't listen to his petty BS.

 

"Luke shows the same anger in "The Last Command" When Master C-Both hurt his sister Leia. If Luke did use the dark side in either cases, then why is he a Jedi Master?"

If you want to get technical, Luke Skywalker is a 'Jedi Master' because he's the only game in town.

I'm not suggesting that the Wizards of the Coast RPG is the end-all and be-all of Star Wars, but think about the implications of what they say about Dark Jedi...

'While these characters [that turn away from the Force and gain levels in a non-Jedi class] may have discarded the Jedi Code, they aren't necessarily dark side characters.'

However, characters that are continue to train in Jedi techiniques and skills but don't follow the Code ARE considered Dark Jedi. What do Skywalker or his apprentices know of the Jedi Code? Hardly anything. They know Jedi techniques, but they don't know how to behave, respond and act together as Jedi.

In my opinion, supported (albiet weakly - I'll grant you that) by the wording of the RPG, Luke Skywalker has trained a bunch of people in the techniques of the Jedi and none of their philosophies. They're all 'dark Jedi', from a certain point of view.

It's just the impression that I get... without the Force to actively tell them how to respond to the Yuuzhan Vong, Skywalker doesn't know what to do. That is a major premise of the NJO Del Ray has been putting forth concerning the series from the get-go - 'without the Force to guide him on how to respond to the invasion, Luke Skywalker does not know how his Jedi should act'... This shows (to me) that he has no clue of the old Jedi Order's modus operandi or the will of the Force. They act without a Code, without a clue. It looks like he made things up as he went along as he trained them, judging by the most simplistic and fundamental debates the NJO seems to get into about their role and the Force. Without a Code, without a clue - they are all dark Jedi. Every last one to come out of Skywalker's teachings. Even without RPG definitions, if you don't know the will of the Force and can't even make a decent guess, but you know Jedi technique, that raises my eyebrows a little. They're all dark Jedi.

As for Skywalker himself... ends don't justify means no matter what you say. Using the Force (present in all life) to reach out and choke a sentient life form when other methods may have sufficed... what's the difference between that and being a Sith? He used the Living Force to harm something present in the Living Force for his own ends, when other options may have been present. In RoTJ, he does the same thing his father does when faced with an inconvenient obstacle - he chokes the life out of it.

As for the difference between Sith and Dark Jedi - I think that Sith are intentionally following a system that is evil, Dark Jedi are just lost and/or stupid Jedi who took the wrong path, don't know any better or don't care one way or the other. Perhaps all of the above. Skywalker seems to develop an arrogance that he is above making mistakes... 'Look at me, I'm so important, I redeemed Darth Vader!' He seems to conveniently ignore his own failings whether they come from his own actions or those of his students who all too frequently fall to the dark side.

Want to see a Dark Jedi? Pick any 'Jedi' character from the NJO, in my opinion. Want to see a Sith, go back to Palpatine's New Order or the civilizations he got his ideas from.

 

I don't think Luke was officially recognized as a Jedi Master until the JAT.

I think Luke used the darkside against Vader in RotJ, and for that brief moment he could be called a "dark Jedi".

Was Kyp Durron a Dark Jedi in Dark Apprentice? Or was he a Sith? He was trained by Exar Kun...

And why are you guys all picking on Jaegar? Even if he/she's naive, at least he/she's not rude. In fact, some of you have been particularly nasty towards him/her.

 

And why are you guys all picking on Jaegar? Even if he/she's naive, at least he/she's not rude. In fact, some of you have been particularly nasty towards him/her.

With respect, Ken, he is a troll. He was banned once for disrupting several threads in December, and has since reappeared under a different nick name.

 

Likely. I also remember another troll with a Darth Vader icon that used to say the same stuff about the Mandalorians and Sith and how Lucas was throwing the EU versions out...around November. Either they're all bobabooie, or he's got some evil clones of his own running around.

Hard to tell. Trolls seem to all have the same stench to them. Probably 'cause they're all so full of s---.

 

And I thought it was my dog!

 

Jaeger is not to post in this forum anymore. If he does, please inform me.

At the same time, please also refrain from making personal comments about him. Move along, move along!

 

::Waves hand::


This is not the thread you are looking for.

 

I see, so because my views on a few subjects are different then most of yours, its trolling, I see how it works here, "argee with us or we don't want you". No respect for a different point of view and unablitiy to defend ideas/positions or listen to them. Very open minded.

 

I see, so because my views on a few subjects are different then most of yours, its trolling

You have continually pushed your views on others. Now, one can accuse others of doing that. Like me saying EU is canon for example...But, what I say is usually based on fact. What you have been saying, jaeger, is stuff that's completely made up and should be taken as truth.

No respect for a different point of view and unablitiy to defend ideas/positions or listen to them.

I don't respect a view that's flawed, personally. Secondly, we haven't had any "unability" to defend your position. We've read what you had to say and proved you were wrong. End of story.

Very open minded.

I know.

Commander Antilles, thank you for watching what goes on. Yes, that was praise you read.

 

I just make stuff up? Well lets look at the Sith history thing.

Did I come up with the phrase - "They (refering to Sith) came into being 2000 befores ago (refuring to the time of TPM)? No, it was in the TPM novel, writen by Brooks who said TPM book was the easyist he's ever writen becasue he DIDN"T HAVE TO COME UP WITH ANYTING, whch means GL told him the Sith history. So that would mean, GL came up the idea the Sith were only 2000 years old, not me.

Now KJA DID create the whole Sith history. As I said in the Sith War graphic novel he says "GL told us we couldn't use some force powers for the Jedi, such as the morphing into animals idea we had, but we could pretty much we wanted".

So you are going to take the word of KJA over that of GL's - and I'm the one you've proved wrong?

 

"They (refering to Sith) came into being 2000 befores ago (refuring to the time of TPM)? No, it was in the TPM novel, writen by Brooks who said TPM book was the easyist he's ever writen becasue he DIDN"T HAVE TO COME UP WITH ANYTING, whch means GL told him the Sith history. So that would mean, GL came up the idea the Sith were only 2000 years old, not me.

That is the Sith Order as depicted in the movies. Within the EU they are sometimes referred to as the "New Sith", such as in the Essential Chronology.

Now KJA DID create the whole Sith history.

Yes. Based on notes by Lucas. It was indeed Lucas who told he and Tom Veitch to make Exar Kun a Dark Lord of the Sith, and not a Dark Jedi.

So you are going to take the word of KJA over that of GL's - and I'm the one you've proved wrong?

You seem to imply that the EU Sith basically never existed within the continuity. The resurgance of the current ( movie ) Sith Order is not the same as the ancient Sith, although they are indeed tied together in certain ways. Story bridges were smoothly shown in the EC and the Jedi vs. Sith comic series. George Lucas hasn't said that any previous stories were thrown out, and what we see in the movies and their companion adaptions does not negate anything. Likewise with the Mandalorians, whose battle with the Jedi happens completely offscreen between films.

 

TPM doesn't say "The New Sith order" or anything like that - the SITH ORDER CAME INTO BEING - that means it started 2000 years before TPM. This is one of those times GL's word's contridicted EU. I'm not saying the Ulic and Kun stuff didn't happen (at least not until AotC comes out) they just become Dark Jedi, not Sith thats all. Nor have I said Mandalorians never existed, Boba just didn't live with them and they don't fight in the clone wars.

GL may have given KJA the word SITH, but KJA wrote the whole backstory, so yes to GL its really meaningless, and he changed it.

 

"Sorry you don't like the framework of the Sith and the Dark Jedi, but that background came directly to us from George Lucas. We're following his guidelines and building a story within the parameters he himself laid down."

-Editor, in Fall of the Sith Empire no 1

Lucas was behind all the sith history.

"The New Sith
2000-1000 bby


The original race of beings known as the Sith disappeared into the fog of history and haven't been seen since the golden age. But the ancestors? teachings of Sith Lords and tangible evil they wrought continued to plague the stability of the republic. Over time, the term Sith took on its new meaning, that of a cult dedicated to the dark side of the force.
Two thousand years before the rise of the empire, a rogue Jedi knight broke away from the teachings of the Jedi council and founded a new order of the Sith, much as Exar Kun had done.
Over time, other Jedi knights joined the renegade, and soon the republic had a serious threat on its hands. The followers of the Sith grew in power over the next millenium and eventually made war on the republic. The Jedi opposed them, but in the end the Sith were felled by there own internal schisms: Unwilling to share power, the Sith deciples destroyed each other in a violent bloodbath.
One of the few survivors was the Sith lord Kaan, who gathered 20,000 devoted followers, under his dark banner, and sought to establish a galaxywide dictatorship of "rule by the strong". A makeshift army was hastily assembled to oppose him, led by the great Jedi master Lord Hoth. The army of light steadily pushed back the brotherhood of darkness, finally cornering them on Ruusan, where seven titanic battles were fought.
The brotherhood of darkness lost all but two battles, reducing their once-fearsome army to a tenth of its original size. Lord Hoth expected his enemy?s unconditional surrender. Instead, the evil Kaan and his deciples barricaded themselves in underground chambers and used there dark powers to create a ?thought bomb??a volatile cauldron of seething force energy.
The next morning, lord Hoth and the army of light entered the enemy encampment marching past rows of severed heads and bodies dandling from poles? grisly trophies of virtuous Jedi who had fallen in conflicts. The lord of darkness and the defender of light met in a great valley. Above the underground chambers; there, Kaan triggered the thought bomb. A furious explosion of energy annihilated the every last member of the army of light and the brotherhood of darkness. The vacuum at the center of the blast sucked in thousands of the disembodied spirits and trapped them in an unbreakable state of equilibrium. The spirits were doomed to remain until a powerful force user arrived at the valley of the Jedi and upset the natural balance. The natives of Ruusan made a prophecy: ?A knight shall come, a battle will be fought, and the prisoners go free.? That prophecy would go unfulfilled until a year after the Battle of Endor. After Ruusan, the Jedi mistakenly believed the Sith had been destroyed at last. One Sith lord, Darth Bane, escaped. He sought a new Sith apprentice to keep the Sith knowledge alive. This time he would value stealth and secrecy above all else. For the Sith to call attention to themselves would be to invite their own destruction.
Over the next thousand years the Sith remained in hiding. Following the strict dictate of Darth Bane, there were never more than two Sith Lords at any one time?a master and apprentice. The Sith meditated on the dark side, and codified there teachings. Like monks in hermitage, they waited in isolation for a chance to strike at the Jedi knights."

All the novel implies is that a sith order started 2000 years ago. It doesn't mention what might have happened 25,000 years ago.

So it was quite easy for lfl to incorporate they still intend too. Right after AOTC is released, "Knights of the old republic" will be released, and the game is set during the TOTJ era, and authorized by lucas to be released. If he didn't want it he would have told them to cancel th

 

Well, as I said, JKA said in the Sith War Graphic novel that he had FREE REIGN in the story, he could do what he wanted to do.

And even if GL did give it them - HE CHANGED IT. Like I said, its going to be interesting when AotC directly contridicts TotJ.

 

The Sith Order came into being 2000 years before TPM. That doesn't mean that Sith didn't exists before then. It means that the current Sith in the way they are organized and ordered as of the movies did. If you don't like/accept that, then I suggest you leave the lit forum.

 

TPM doesn't say "The New Sith order" or anything like that - the SITH ORDER CAME INTO BEING - that means it started 2000 years before TPM.

That's the "current Sith Order coming to be".

This is one of those times GL's word's contridicted EU.

You're seeing something that isn't there.

so yes to GL its really meaningless, and he changed it.

Where did Lucas convey this?

 

"Sorry you don't like the framework of the Sith and the Dark Jedi, but that background came directly to us from George Lucas. We're following his guidelines and building a story within the parameters he himself laid down."

-Editor, in Fall of the Sith Empire no 1

The editor knows what he is talking about and tells it how it is. As long as they remained in those parameters, they had free reign to do what they wanted, just like the rest of the EU and the current EU, and the future EU. In which case if LFL and lucas approved the story after they finished what they covered, then it was official and printed. LFL, has kept it valid to this day.

 

So in a sense, Luke did use the dark side maybe once?

Luke Skywalker and his Jedi Knights do not know how the Old Republic Jedi acted, because of a lack of information. Jacen Solo is trying his hardest, or was trying his hardest from the first NJO book up until Balance Point to find the true meaning of the Jedi. We should find out in the next few books if Jacen finds out the true meaning of the Jedi and if Luke Skywalker's Jedi Knights change there ways because of that information. What do you guys think?

 

Jaeger gets a 48 hour ban after being told to stop posting in Lit.