ST What is the 'First Order' and the 'Resistance'?

Well now it's been stated that the group that steals the Death Star plans are also called the "Resistance".

I'm starting to wonder if the "Resistance" is a special forces group within the New Republic which stemmed from the same special forces group that was part of the rebellion. As I said before, kind of like the SEALS or the Marines. We know there will be a New Republic and we know now that the Empire isn't the Empire but rather the First Order, a new group that stemmed from Imperial holdouts.

 

So maybe Abrams et al are saying that the Rebel Alliance defeated the Sith in ROTJ, but they didn't necessarily defeat the Empire (or at least the power behind the Empire)?

 

Also consider that if Ren is wanting to restore the glory of the Sith/Vader via this new radical Empire movement, the fact the Leia and Luke are Vader's children could be very problematic for the Resistance from a propoganda point of view. Ren and the radical Empire movement could easily use that against the Resistance.

 

No, I don't think DarthPJ was saying that. I think that is wishful thinking on the part of those who want the Sith gone but the Empire still in existence.

Sounds like it's like WWI to WWII where from the ashes of the Axis Powers in WWI you get Hitler's regime and WWII.

Another analogy might be Sadam Hussein's regine to ISIS. From the ashes of Sadam's fall comes the rise of the horrid ISIS which is basically the same thing but more bent on worldwide terror rather than just regional control.

That's what I gather. And the Resistance are the legion and alliance that fights it.

 

I would love it if the ST uses the Skywalker lineage against our heroes.

 

Kind of like Naboo resisting the Trade Federation in Episode I?

 

Sounds like the Separatists in Episode II...

 

Exactly. And in that context, "Resistance" is a positive term. So it would make sense for them to call themselves a resistance, and not "rebels."

 

I think this might be time to revisit some of those old spy camera pics from last year, because we have plenty of official footage of the First Order forces, but not a whole lot of the resistance.
So here might be some..






I cant say any of these uniforms scream "Rebel Alliance" or "New Republic", though I suppose they do bear a little resemblance.

 

I think its more like what the US is doing during the Vietnam War where they were training the South Vietnamese against the NVA. Instead of getting directly involved they are fighting through puppet armies. The New Republic is being diplomatically careful, especially if this conflict is being fought outside of the range of their its influence. So the Resistance is fighting against the First Order to re-align with the New Republic.

 

or even more analogous, the current middle eastern conflicts. Something else to note from the spy drone photos is there are different paint jobs for the T-70s, the standard grey and blue, black and orange, and white and black. Perhaps this denotes different factions involved on the same side?

 

But we know that the Sith (or something pretty much identical) are in TFA. So I'd imagine it may be more that the rebels defeated the Empire, as we knew it, but from the shadows comes someone else to pick up the pieces up the imperial remnants i.e it's not the Empire? Don't know...

 

Nice analysis! this increased efficiency in the Empire's, er, The First Order's design element surely has more to do than with simple efficiency, no? (At least until MSW comes up with a shot list to spoil all of this cool spec. )

Speaking of which, I was thinking of Alfred Rosenberg, Hitler's racist, occult and philosophical spiritual leader, who believed in the Thule society's inclination towards religion as being founded in blood rather than in belief. So... Maybe Kylo is that element of "singularity"...? in that he forms a direct connection to Vader, through blood. Kind of how Hitler was considered to be the Messiah that the Aryan race was pining for?[/quote]

 

The Thule / obsession with the occult stuff is interesting. Kylo definitely had an occult warrior monk thing going down. The whole Crusader vibe is very strong. I would love it if a hard core faction within the first order is driven by Sith religious fanatics.

 

I just think that linking Kylo to something more "mystical," or dark, like the Vader heritage (even the Lebensborn babies), will be more interesting than making him just a pop-up Sith.

 

Some pretty good thoughts about the First order here:

 

Speaking of ancient Sith, from which the First Order may have drawn inspiration from; Even if you take all of the EU away and go with current established canon there is plenty to suggest that the Sith in the past have had their share of empires, and that atleast one of them subdued the Republic through open military means, and alliances with the Mandalorians. Only to have it crumble from within sometime later, as Darth Bane mentioned.

Escape from Kadavo - Palpatine "Long have Sith empires been built on the backs of slaves."

The Mandalore Plot - Pre Vizsla "This lightsaber was stolen from your Jedi Temple, by my ancestors during the fall of the old Republic."

ROTS - Palpatine "Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy." (Suggesting they already did once)

ROTS - Mace Windu "The oppression of the Sith will never return." (Referring to ancient Sith rule)

I wouldn't mind an origin story that explains how they came to be, and their subsequent rise and fall through the ages. After the coming trilogies are done.

 

Maybe the First Order wants a Force-sensitive master race?

 

The idea of Resistance as a subsect of the Rebellion/Republic makes a lot of sense. A sort of special forces that originates from the group that stole the Death Star plans. It lines up with Poe's secret mission well. Otherwise it wouldn't make much sense for the Rebellion to relabel itself if they're still using Rebel tech and we still have Leia who is most likely still leading them.

The First Order makes it seem like this is a bit of a newer movement, as if it's more of a resurgence in a 10-30 year lull than an Empire still fighting against the same old rebellion. It lines up with Finn being more inexperienced as well, as if Finn was just a new recruit in a very large movement to rebuild the Empire.

 

I find the 1st order flag very reminiscent of this Thule Society logo:

 

It's this inside of a benzene ring! The First Order are proto-Nazi Chemists

 

Darthchaussette:

Great catch. I knew about the Thule Society and Alfred Rosenberg but was unfamiliar with this image. I texted it to my friend, who's kind of an expert on this kind of stuff.

He gave me some interesting tidbits:

Apparently, this symbol goes back beyond Hitler. The English monarchy system is apparently based on the notion of a blood connection that can be traced back to Transylvania... or something like that.

That's why the queen walks a red carpet--it's to signify the blood connection to Dracula, believe it or not. He said to "Google" prince Charles Transylvania.

My friend might have been pulling my leg, but he's the expert on this stuff... He even mentioned something about blood sacrifices. As well as Queen Elizabeth's bunker beneath the Denver airport.

I dunno. The blood connection stuff is interesting, though, as it relates to Kylo's character, given the rumors concerning his blood lineage.

 

Interesting. I've been thinking that The First Order may have a more mystical / spiritual ideology than the Empire had ( at least publicly ), for a while now. Maybe this could point towards that?

 

This was my thought, as well.

I keep thinking back to Jabba's line to Vader about the rebels' "darker factions."

Maybe they became the First Order (either all on their own, or upon reaching an accord with the surviving remnant(s) of the Empire), while the more "heroic" factions coalesced into "the Resistance"?