ST What is the 'First Order' and the 'Resistance'?

Seems like that the First Order is filling a power vacuum left by years of conflict. When regions become destabilised (for whatever reason), not so nice people have a habit of coming to power (look at the Middle East atm), so the First Order sorta offer some stability I suspect.

Say what you want, the trains always run on time with the First Order in charge

 

This is kind of how I see it. I think the New Republic had a few good years, but wasn't able to have the reach that the Empire did.Things went even worse for the Empire and they crumbled with in-fighting and were pushed out of key systems by the Republic. They still had forces scattered throughout the galaxy and they got co-opted by the First Order.

Somehow, the First Order emerges and has its **** together, with the Resistance still having a ton of resources from the Republic to help fight them off.

 

Interesting.....

 

Thought so. Interesting indeed.

 

Going on MakingStarWars timeline, I am going to hazard guess and say the New Republic is the part of the Rebel Alliance that decided it could live with the Empire still existing post-Endor and signed a peace treaty while the Resistance is the part of the Rebel Alliance that couldn't stand the thought of the Empire still maintaining a stronghold anywhere in the galaxy; broke away and continued fighting.

 

Works for me.

 

So, this begs the question: does the First Order have a podracing event called... The Junta Eve Classic?

 

This. ^^^

The New Republic thinks it can find peaceful solutions. They're willing to let Imperial Remnant exist and have some territory.

The resistance disagrees. Leia is militant now. She doesn't trust Imperial Remnant. She forms a splinter group. It may be with Mothma and Sella.

They feel they have to wipe out what is left. The development of a superweapon.

What's left of the Imperial Remnant becomes The First Order. They are planning to rise again, hope to catch New Republic off-guard with their new superweapon.

Does the New Republic come to Leia's aid when they realize she was right about The Imperial Remnant/The First Order?

It's starting to come together.

 

I can see Leia wanting to finish the job but using a super weapon? That doesn't sit well with me.

 

I'm going to have to agree with you here. It wouldn't make sense for her to participate in using any sort of weapon that might cause mass-killing. She's always been tough, but she despises war and has a good heart. This is not something she would do at all.

 

Don't forget Alderaan, Tarkin and the Death Star. There is no way she would go there. If they do, the explanation is going to have to be amazing for me to accept it.

 

rumors say the resistances super weapon is the "sledgehammer" and destroys large enemy ships, not planets or anything.

 

That's the most it should be. No further.

 

I find it interesting that the Resistance has troopers with helmets that obscure the soldiers' faces. Makes me wonder if the Rebels are starting to become less personable and human, and more like the faceless goons of the Empire/First Order. I'd love to have some corrupt Resistance leaders sending those guys after our heroes later on in the trilogy. Trust no one!

 

The Empire has become the First order & the Republic has become the Resistance end of discussion

 

JJ Abrams interview on the First Order:

The earlier movies, the first movies, things were good and things were bad. The Force was good and the Empire was bad. But now in today we live in a more gray area. I’m curious, 30 years after the fall of the Empire, why would someone want to start a First Order? Why would someone want to associate with the dark side when it’s corrupted everyone that it’s touched?

Exactly, these are the questions aren’t they? Yes, I couldn’t agree with you more. I do think the sort of obvious answer is that the Force has a light side and a dark side. It’s not just one thing. It’s not just that the Force is good, the Force is ... it can be a very dangerous thing. It can be a very seductive thing. I think that the story clearly requires a conflict of some sort. And so if people were rejecting the dark side somehow entirely it would be a hard thing to figure out what we would be up against. It was part of the, what felt like an authentic and true inevitability of what might of happened in the years post “Jedi.”

Are there people that are Empire deniers? Usually in these fallouts there are these weird groups that arise out of the eventual end of a war?

You mean who makes up the First Order, basically? Is that what you’re asking me? Obviously, you’ll see the movie to understand it, but I will say that the interesting thing for me, is the history of these characters is these films, is the history that we know. So they’re aware of what’s come before. And there are, I would argue, those who feel like what the Empire was doing was righteous and had something not gone wrong, as we all know it did, they probably would have succeeded. And it might be worth trying again.

***

Sounds like there is still no stopping the allure of the dark side, despite that whole "blowing up Alderaan" thing. Then again, the rebels did wipe out plenty of Empire lives blowing up the Death Star ... twice. So there's that.

Hopefully this will all be explained in the opening crawl in December, when the movie is released.


http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...rams-star-wars-empire-d23-20150817-story.html

 

I’ve been pondering a theory lately:

Maybe Kylo is not only obsessed about Vader for being his grandfather, but also because Vader is proclaimed and worshiped as a deity of the Force by the First Order.

Here’s how I see it going down: (using some ideas from other posters)

• Palpatine orders Vader to create a group of Inquisitors
• Vader recognizes the Inquisitors as threats, who could take his place
• Vader turns the tables and trains a few Force Sensitives (Snoke) secretly who he believes will be loyal to him
• Vader starts a new Force group called the Knights of Ren to overthrow the Emperor, teaching the following:
  • He is the Chosen One and should be / will be the rightful ruler of the Galaxy
  • His knowledge of the Force (both Jedi and Sith)
  • His views on politics.

Anakin (AoTC): “We need a system where the politicians sit down and discuss the problems, agree what's in the best interests of all the people, and then [make them] do it.”

Junta: A council or committee for political or governmental purposes; especially: a group of persons controlling a government especially after a revolutionary seizure of power.

When the Emperor and Vader die, the Knights (The 7) come out of hiding and proclaim Vader a God of the Force. They begin teaching what they have learned from him and eventually team up with the military remnants of the Empire to form the First Order …of the Force. Adding a Force / religious justification to the military control of the Empire.

Luke, Leia and Kylo are discovered to be the direct lineage of Vader. Luke is the rightful heir to the throne of the First Order, but adamantly declines as does Leia. Kylo is next in line...

Maybe it’s cliche, but perhaps it is even prophesied that Vader will return to Rule the Galaxy.

 

"Sounds like there is still no stopping the allure of the dark side, despite that whole "blowing up Alderaan" thing."

Honestly it wouldn't shock me if they spin it a certain way to justify or deny it like the Neo Nazis, Stalinists and Maoists. People will go out of their way to justify some pretty horrific things to defend their ideology. It wouldn't be the first time in history.

Maybe the First Order claims Alderaan was evacuated prior or maybe all the citizens had prepared some sort of weapon that could harm imperial citizens.

 

That makes a lot of sense and is also fun. The last line is problematic. How could this happen? What would it take to restore Vader? What is it that Vader didn't accomplish that Kylo wants to finish? A Junta? A dark side totalitarian leader? That sounds like only half the equation in terms of Vader's goals. The power over life and death were the other half, IMO. Good thoughts that sound totally plausible and enjoyable.

 

I hope in 8 we see who is running things with the New Republic (probably get a mention or reference in TFA). Wouldn't it be something if the new Chancellor is someone we know. Could be a really elderly Mothma. Could be Lando! Chancellor Calrissian? Or maybe he's not chancellor, but he's high up there as a war hero. He is an old smoothie after all. Would be interesting to see him on the Pacifists side of things but after Han's death he joins Leia and the Resistance.

 

All good questions, I probably haven't thought through them thoroughly enough yet (don't hold me to my answers, it's a work in progress ).
My knee jerk responses (feel free to counter):

How could this happen? We as an audience know that it can't, which probably makes for a bad plot line. My original thought was that it would be Luke's word against the 1st Order's 'teachings" / Prophesy.
What would it take to restore Vader? In the minds of the 1st Order perhaps some kind of ritual (using property of Vader) with the power of the dark side, mixed with the knowledge of the light side, performed by a direct descendant?
What is it that Vader didn't accomplish that Kylo wants to finish? Control over a new Order of Force Users (light mixed with dark). In the mind of Kylo, perhaps teaching the Galaxy understanding of the full spectrum of the Force (proclaiming it rather than hiding in it)?
A Junta? A dark side totalitarian leader? As I look back on the life of Anakin / Darth Vader, I think the one thing he would want more than any other is the freedom to do what he wanted (not being controlled by anyone else) -- which directly contradicts his quote from AoTC and my theory about enforcing politics .

Sure, once Shmi and Padme were at risk and were lost to him, I think Anakin would have liked to have the power over life and death, but I wonder if he would have traded that power for the freedom to be with them (protect them) as he saw fit.

Now I have lots more to think about.

 

I'm starting to think that the Rebel fleet that destroyed the second Death Star was ambushed by the Empire and mostly destroyed after the Battle of Endor. Only a few original leaders survived.

However, with the loss of Darth Vader and the Emperor, the Empire collapsed into anarchy and civil war. The remaining imperial military leadership broke into factions of warlords controlling their own territories. One of these make up the First Order.

The Resistance is one of these factions that has a provisional democratic government. It probably controls less than 10% of the galaxy. Hutt space becomes as larger as the New Republic does too. In fact, various moderate states evolve out of the Old Empire and compete with the Republic for influence. Some Jedi even debate which governments to ally with when the order returns. The galaxy is made up of nothing, but squabbling factions all fighting with one another. This is a similar situation to how the Roman Empire disintegrated into various medieval states in Europe or how the Greek Empire collapsed into various kingdoms after Alexander of Macedon died.

The ST will be about the Republic trying to restore itself which in reality will take centuries to do.

 

Some really interesting discussion in this thread about the origins of the First Order.

The skeptic in me says it will ultimately just be a thinly veiled rehash of the original empire, but I would definitely be on board with some of these theories. Hopefully the motivations are well fleshed out.

However the "Resistance" has come to be, I still think it's a pretty lame name, and there was no need to rebrand both sides of the conflict. Rebel Alliance still seems more star warsy and fitting, rather than this new label which just makes me think of someone yelling "viva la resistance" from the South Park movie. I feel that word has kind of garnered a parody status over the last decade or so. First order is also bold and making a statement, while resistance is vague and not giving me a clear picture.

I think first order, these guys sound like a group of radicals. I think resistance, and I think it sounds like these guys don't stand a chance. Sounds like a poorly managed group that's just waiting to be stomped out. Sort of like the Browncoats from Firefly.

But maybe there will be a reveal and they call themselves the Rebels later on? I mean they are still using the rebel logo right?

Or maybe I'm just ranting cause I have a Rebel Alliance tattoo, and if someone asked me if it was a "resistance" tattoo I'd probably instantly be annoyed.

No. The statement I wanted to make was "rebel" not "resistance"... /Angsty 20 year old me when I got the tat.

 

Immortiss

I agree that there will be another goal beyond the restoration of a Galactic Empire-style regime. There'll be a philosophical question and conflict. It's maddeningly hard to see quite what this will be at the moment, as this is the type of stuff that we really need the script, or at least some good sections of dialogue to decipher. I've no doubt that it's in there, though.