ST What is the 'First Order' and the 'Resistance'?

They may be called the Resistance simply because it's a provisional government which has formally restored the Republic yet. Since the Empire is has fallen apart and disintegrated, it can no longer be called the Rebellion or the Rebel alliance because there is no government for that purpose anymore. The galaxy is broken up into various factions of Imperial warlords squabbling and feuding with one another. Resistance space is free of any Imperial influence at the moment.

 

I think the First Order will be a slightly more competent version of the Empire. A young, strong General (Hux) leads the military, while Supreme Leader Snoke tries to avoid the mistakes that Palpatine and the original group made. Snoke is overall in charge, but perhaps he respects Hux and they work together a bit more than what was the case before in the Empire. I'd even go so far as to say that the soldiers (stormtroopers) are a volunteer corps that believes in the cause.

The X-factor for me is the Knights of Ren, specifically Kylo. It's easy to say "oh they're just Inquisitors" but that's kind of an EU idea (albeit a good guess, not saying that it's not) and I'm not sure I buy into it being true. I think there's more to these guys/gals than what we're being led to believe. As far as them being enforcers for the First Order, well personally I think that responsibility belongs to Captain Phasma who I'm sure has her own elite group of troops. I think the Knights are something else. I have no doubt that they are associated with Snoke, but I won't try to guess why.

The Resistance, yeah, I think this is a bit more clear. They fight for the New Republic, and are more of a guerilla force compared to the old Rebels, who were actually a pretty organized military group. Leia obviously runs it, and Poe Dameron is her right-hand man who she probably views as a son.

 

Just had a thought regarding the First Order...

We know Finn defects from the FO. We think he's Force sensitive. We believe he is not trained in the ways of the Force.

Now just from those points, does anyone think it's possible that the FO only recruit (enlist) Force sensitives, but do not train them to use it?
Why would they do this? Basically, if you rounded up all the Force sensitives and kept them in one place, building a Jedi order would be very difficult for someone else. But you could take the best and train them? (The Knights of Ren?)
Maybe that's part of the attack on the academy and why Kylo was taken? Maybe that's why Rey has been hidden and watched over by MVS?

What do you reckon, too much?

 

The Resistance reminds me of Tech Comm in the Terminator films. They have a military which also doubled as civilian leadership while fighting what remains of Sky Net. They have defeated much of the machine forces, but need to smash the final computer.

 

I wonder if the First Order will be theocratic?

 

I like that, interesting dynamic there.

 

The First Order is just a collection of warlords which are barely hanging on and have only a bunch of WMDs left over from the Empire to throw around and hope to regain power with.

The Knights of Ren are just a dark side cult which is simply seeking to install itself as a new empire ruled probably by simply the Force. Each of those knights dreams of being their own individual lords which rule over a sector of the galaxy, including Kylo, while making Snoke the head emperor or overlord.

 

I think the Resistance is probably a poorly funded war effort by the New Republic against the First Order; a faction they don't yet take entirely seriously.

 

Just saw this on the Databank. This must mean the First Order controls territory with civilians. They seem serious.

 

The Galaxy's a huge place. For all we know those places could have become part of the First Order willingly with civilian unrest. Even in WWII Hitler had already annexed into several territories before he invaded Poland and started WWII.

I'm guessing that the New Republic is still around and is too busy trying to keep from entering another Galactic Civil War. I'm sure they call it the "Resistance" because it doesn't have their full support. Otherwise it would just be The New Republic Army vs The First Order.

 

riot guy is in this pic with baton and shield.

 

I’m beginning to think you are not even reading through your own posts, let alone mine... You stated that the force doesn’t have a consciousness. The implication is that force is not self aware and has no perception of itself and/or its surroundings. That’s a strange thing to think... given we’re talking about the force consciously influencing ‘balance’. I’m not sure Spinoza’s explanations apply.

Again, I’m not sure you’re thinking is joined up. Balance was restored wasn’t it? There’s only two possible scenarios by your logic:-



1)The force itself influenced balance, which necessitated the destruction of both Jedi and Sith (the destruction of both being the main aim)

2) The force itself influenced balance, which resulted in the destruction of both Jedi and Sith (the destruction of the Sith being the main aim)



Both have a moral dilemma... By creating the chosen one, by restoring balance, it resulted in the demise of the Jedi order. Cause and effect. Scenario 1 alludes to a notion that they (Jedi and Sith) were all planned casualties as a consequence of restoring balance... scenario 2 implying that the Jedi’s death didn’t affect balance either way i.e. there was no consequence because it was all about the Sith. Otherwise, what cost balance... which is the other philosophical element that you don’t seem to have picked up on? If balance is achieved (the greater good), despite Anakin’s turn/the Jedi’s demise, then the logic is that the actions and consequences are morally and philosophically justified because of the ‘greater good’ being achieved.

 

Think of the Force like any natural system - when something in the system is changed it unconsciously moves to remove it. When your body has an infection it sends ant-bodies to solve the problem. This creates an illusion of consciousness.

Option 2 - but with free will, thus an imperfect solution. Anakin has a responsibility.

If your goal is to save someone from falling off bridge, but on your way you drive through a hospital (unnecessarily), but you still completed your goal, can it still be said that it was 'necessary' or 'right' to drive through the hospital (if there was another path to be taken)?

 

So its like Reboot except the Palpatine virus almost succeeded in corrupting the anti-virus?​

 

Ok – thanks for elucidating on your opinion. Interesting that you think the force works in this way i.e. an entity that has no consciousness and no awareness of its place in the environment. I’m not sure many here would agree, and in many respects runs contrary to the films, but interesting none the less. Also, it’s worth noting that within your medical/temporal analogy, when a cancer is treated it often requires the destruction of healthy cells. And if the Jedi are merely healthy cells and the Sith mutations, then there is no moral imperative to question. Sometimes a leg, a breast must be removed to save the patient etc. etc.

But in this comparison we’re not talking about an individual’s goal, presented by rational thought and free will... we are talking about a pre-described goal ascribed by a higher being to one created to serve a single purpose. If ‘God’ creates a bomb to kill the one that opposes him, why put the bomb in a church of his followers (that’s an academic question now, as I get that you believe the force has no self awareness/no rationale for its actions)? Furthermore, if ‘balance’ does not require a Jedi order, nor does the killing of Jedi sully that balance... then there is no moral compunction to save the Jedi. Balance was achieved regardless of the route taken. To use your analogy, there was no right or wrong route (if that’s what you are stating), it was all about the destination.

 

This was the thread you guys were supposed to use for the "First Order compared to Empire" discussion you were having in the Knights of Ren thread. The other thread that I linked to there was supposed to be for the "Force and balance" discussion.

 

Okay so is the First Order actually a more extremist off shoot of the Imperial Remaints or like the Resistance an attempt to restore their lost prestige whilst the Resistance are dedicated to being ready when another Emperor emerges to try and seize control like Palpatine did?

 

Mea culpa...

 

It's OK, just trying to keep things organized.

 

Moved threads.

 

I wonder what's the connection between the New Repiblic and the Resistance. Do they exist at the same time? Whats the the relation between these possible two different factions. We know the New Republic fought the last forces of the dying Galactic Empire. But now the Resistance fights the First Order. I really wonder whats the difference and the relationship between the new goverment and the new splinter organisation led by Leia Organa. What do you think?

 

Episode VII takes place 30 years after Return Of The Jedi, so there's the possibility of the New Republic's collapse within that period, yes? Preferably I don't wish for that. The New Republic and the Resistance could co-exist as allies, with the Resistance serving as the militaristic element of the government. However, I have a hunch that the New Republic will not endure around the time of The Force Awakens. I'm still glad that they decided to canonize the New Republic.

 

I think Mon Mothma is the driving force behind the creation of the New Republic. The Empire was around for quite awhile, and still is (in a way) because somebody (likely) Snoke refined and renamed it into the First Order. Leia and some others probably saw this new threat as very dangerous to the Republic so they created the Resistance. I have no idea about the time frame, but based on what I've read along with making some minor guesses, that's how I think it played out.

So the connection is that the Resistance (at least indirectly) works for the Republic. Leia seems to have taken a much more involved role in the military side of things, which is not how she used to be, but I'm sure that some things have happened that might have changed her outlook, compared to when we last saw her.

 

I wonder who's in charge of the New Republic

 

mon mothma is the chancellor.