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Saga What is the legacy of Qui-Gon Jinn?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by BoromirsFan, Feb 23, 2012.

  1. BoromirsFan

    BoromirsFan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 16, 2010
    I can't help but feel Qui-Gon is forgotten as the films progress. By the saga's end there is no trace of him. I am not encouraging retconning him in, I just feel like Obi-Wan gets all the credit.

    OF course I also think Qui-Gon would have prevented Anakin from falling for obvious reasons. I don't enjoy being hard on Obi-Wan because by Revenge of the Sith he had forged a good relationship with Anakin, even if the past prevented Anakin from trusting him when it came to Padme's fate.

    So what is his legacy? I feel like he has to be significant to the saga because he gets the funeral pyre at the end of episode I, a direct mirror of the saga's end with Vader.

    I know he discovered Anakin, but i still feel like in the end Qui-Gon is simply forgotten. What do you think?

    Why can't he communicate to Luke?
     
  2. erock311

    erock311 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 10, 2009
    I think he wouldn't communicate with Luke, simply, because he had no reason to. Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Yoda were the three major parts of Luke's transformation from farm-boy to Jedi. Qui-Gon appearing at that moment would most likely be confusing,detracting from the celebration.
    His legacy is the further insight to the Force he gives Yoda, Obi-Wan, and most likely others.
     
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  3. BoromirsFan

    BoromirsFan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 16, 2010
    well i always thought he could appear after Luke turns away to join the celebration.

    Of course there is little that can be done, no dialogue exists to refer to QGJ. The only think could be the endor scene and thats it.

    Unless someone could think of anything else.

    I just wish Luke knew the whole story.
     
  4. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    he taught the jedi how to become one w the living force.
     
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  5. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    He couldn't appear as a Force ghost because he discovered the ability after dying (and his body being cremated). The closest he could get was his Force "voice". But that discovery, and teaching it to Obi-Wan and Yoda, and the discovery of the guy who ultimately ended up being the Chosen One after all, were his legacy. Retrospectively we can assume that Obi-Wan told Luke about Qui-Gon.
     
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  6. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Force Ghost star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
     
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  7. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    Or maybe its because Luke doesn't know him or even heard of him. Qui-Gon has been dead for a long time before Luke was even born. Anyone that knew Qui-Gon are either dead, in hiding (Obi-wan and Yoda), or they're ruling the galaxy (Darth Vader and Emperor Sidious).
     
  8. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    This. I also agree that he didn't appear to Luke because there was no reason for him to do so. Obi-Wan and Yoda appeared to him because they were influential with Luke while they were alive.
     
  9. princethomas

    princethomas Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2001
    To me, His legacy is of the greatest Jedi of all. The council wouldnt listen to him and they paid for it mostly with their lives. It is Qui Gon who discovers the secret to the afterlife and its qui gon who then teaches Obi-Wan and Yoda. In the end it is Qui-Gon's style of Jedi teachings that Luke will bring to a new Jedi order.
     
  10. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Very true. And in the OT, Yoda and Obi-Wan were much more focused on the Living Force than in the PT, when their focus was slanted far too much on the Unifying Force.
     
  11. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I agree with the above posts. Qui-Gon is one of my favourite parts of the prequels.

    I had kind of a theory on the symbolism behind Qui-Gon's death. While Qui-Gon's death obviously had a part in beginning the end (because Anakin was less likely to turn if mentored by Qui-Gon) I think it also works on an other level.
    When Maul dies, and Qui-Gon dies, I get the feeling Anakin is carrying the torch for both of them. Kind of forced in as one of two (future) Sith, and attached to Obi-Wan in place of Qui-Gon. It's hard to explain, but it could symbolically mean Anakin was never meant to be in this position, and the metaphorical pull between these two forces causes a kind of imbalance. Also, I think Obi-Wan being forced in as Master, where he wasn't meant to be in this case, could also have a similar effect. Just speculation, hope it makes sense.
    Don't get me wrong though, I think Obi-Wan was an excellent mentor for Luke, possibly because he adapted and succeeded the second time. Also, really, Luke was just the better Jedi of him and his father.
     
  12. BoromirsFan

    BoromirsFan Jedi Master star 4

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    May 16, 2010
    How long was Obi-Wan with Luke? a few hours?
     
  13. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 13, 2011
    True, but IMO Obi-Wan arguably achieves more with Luke in that period (plus a few times in the following movies) than he ever does with Anakin in 13 years. Luke respects him more than Anakin did for example. Informing Luke (and therefore the audience) about the force in the way he does totally trumps any of the dogmatic lessons he taught in AOTC. With Luke he (and Yoda) got it right. Just my opinion though, some people like Anakin and Obi-Wan's relationship in Episode Two.
    I don't find this subject an inconsistency or a plothole either, the way the prequels are written implies that Obi-Wan and Yoda adapted.
    There is perhaps a parallel in the little time both Qui-Gon/Anakin and Obi-Wan/Luke spent together. It goes the opposite way, of course; Obi-Wan's death makes him, and by extension Luke, more powerful than they could have been. Qui-Gon's premature death is one of the causes of Anakin's fall.
     
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  14. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    This is a great point.
     
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  15. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 13, 2011
    Thanks.

    Something else I noticed about Qui-Gon watching Anakin after dying...
    It can be read differently depending on what order you watch the movies. An easter egg for OT-first fans, because you know Obi-Wan retains his identity later. But much more subtle if you watch the prequels first. Qui-Gon never appears as a force ghost, and hearing his voice in AOTC is the only thing at that stage that hints he is still there. I'm stating the obvious though.
     
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  16. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2012
    He's the man responsible for all the pain in the galaxy. If he never took Anakin away from Tattoine, the Empire wouldn't exist and the Jedi would still exist, and the republic too. Well intended, but he messed up.
     
  17. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    To qualify as "messing up"- those events would actually have to have been predictable at that point.
     
  18. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2012
    Regardless of what was predictable or not at that point, regardless of their intentions, qui gon's actions did have bad consequences, whether he intended to or not.
     
  19. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Bad consequences aren't the arbiter of whether somebody "messed up" or not though. Other factors come into play.

    "Could Qui-Gon reasonably have been expected to know what would happen?" I don't think so.
     
  20. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2012
    A person's actions, regardless of their intentions or what they know at the time, have consequences.
     
  21. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    True- but to say something is a "mistake" implies more than that- it implies that they knew there was a risk- and took it anyway. Or that they were "willfully ignorant".

    There's a description in one of the SW novels about what constitutes "a mistake"- specifically Backlash, p80:

    "What is a mistake, Admiral? It is a decision in which one or more of the factors is known to be dangerous, or poisonous, or compromising, but which we calculate will not keep us from achieving our goals. But when there is no foreknowledge of such factor in evidence, can it be called a mistake? If you walk out on an empty field and the ground suddenly gives way beneath you, and there was no way to predict it, was any part of your decision-making a mistake? No."
     
  22. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    He simply has no connection to him. But I share your sentiment that he should be talked about more (at least in the PT).
     
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  23. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2012
    It was still qui gon's fault.
     
  24. Lord Tyrannus

    Lord Tyrannus Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Oct 18, 2012
    Because, people's actions, regardless of their intentions, have consequences, whether for good or for bad.
     
  25. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Fault of what?
     
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