Saga What is the legacy of Qui-Gon Jinn?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by BoromirsFan, Feb 23, 2012.

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  1. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    He was an architect that just needed that extra help from someone. Part 1 was starting the clone wars to get a loyal army and a lot of power, by manipulating the senate. Part 2 was having anakin save him and allowing the galactic empire to exist for some time.

    Also, if Luke and Leia never existed, Anakin wouldn't have created the empire, because the only reason he saved Palps from windu was to get the power of the darkside to save padme who was pregnant with luke and leia. The galaxy would have been better if Luke and Leia were never born.
  2. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Shmi's non-abortion was a direct non-action to a not-yet-but-about-to-be baby.
    Yunners likes this.
  3. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    Yes, it is. Nothing is direct in your argument.
    BoromirsFan likes this.
  4. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Who agrees with me about Luke and Leia?
  5. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

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    Oct 18, 2012
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    Does anyone else agree with me that the Seperatist idea was not a good idea? If i made the prequels, the clone wars/main conflict that helped Palps rise to power would be an intergalactic invasion.
  6. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    You just agreed with me that the Empire would have formed regardless of whether Anakin had been brought to Coruscant or not.

    That was the entirety of my point -- that Qui-Gon shouldn't be blamed because Palpatine was perfectly capable of forming the Empire without Anakin's involvement. The way things played out, Anakin was involved because Palpatine wanted to turn him, but he didn't need to be.
  7. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    But that came in later EU! The prequels shouldn't copy the EU.

    I think Anakin would have tried to save Padme even if she were pregnant with Amy and Anakin Jr. But if Anakin had kept it where it belonged (according to the Jedi) and Padme didn't get pregnant (unless those invaders invaded her body without her consent), Sids might have given her an inoculation of some germ that Anakin could fear would take her life.
  8. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
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    Was anakin's fall to the darkside predestined, regardless of Padme having luke and leia?
  9. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
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    No. He chose to fall because the dark offered him what he wanted and the light denied it. He wanted Padme to live; he wanted to be sure he never again lost anything he loved.
    WIERD_GREEN_MAN likes this.
  10. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    I guess luke and leia's very existence turned anakin to the darkside? Evil twins.
  11. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Nope; not evil twins, because as you said about Qui-Gon, if Anakin had only used protection he wouldn't be worried about Padme dying in childbirth. But then she agreed to marry him, and out of marriage comes marital relations, and sometimes protection fails and - it was Obi-Wan's fault for allowing Anakin to escort Padme back to Naboo, but wait, Dooku took Anakin's arm which laid him up in the first place but then Qui-Gon's death was the final straw that led to Dooku's leaving the Order, so one might blame Maul, but then Obi-Wan sliced and diced Maul too late to save Qui-Gon because of those stupid laser gates so perhaps technology is at fault...
    WIERD_GREEN_MAN likes this.
  12. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I will let the eminently reasonable Miles Edgeworth reply for me here:

    [IMG]

    :p

    No, seriously, it's been fun but...I think I've reached the limit of where logic can take me. And I honestly don't want to see the end point of this conversation.
  13. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    And here the fun ends...
  14. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    *Sigh* Again?

    [IMG]
  15. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

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    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    If anakin didn't block mace windu's lightsaber, would palpatine have survived?
  16. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Another thing, Luke and leia were not nessecary to defeat the empire, nor was anakin. Anakin turning against palpatine, inspired by Luke, in the ROTJ final duel had little-no effect on the outcome of the final battle.

    Also, if padme never had luke and leia, would anakin have become darth vader?
    Last edited by Lord Tyrannus, Oct 25, 2012
  17. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Without Luke and Leia - and no Padme-as-wife - Anakin may have fulfilled the prophecy and destroyed Sids years earlier - meaning no Empire at all. For every hypothetical, there's a long line of possibilities and probabilities.
  18. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Luke and leia should never existed in the first place; it would've been better for the galaxy. They're the reason Anakin became darth Vader and the galactic empire existed! They didn't even "save" the galaxy. The rebels overthrew the empire.

    That's why I like the prequels. They make luke and leia responsible for the bad things that happened in the saga, good character development.
  19. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
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    Do you think the Rebels, once they had some control, should have banished or exiled Luke and Leia to the Outer Rim because of their responsibility for everything that happened?
  20. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    No. They were not responsible, from a moral point of view. If someone unknowingly causes something bad to happen, they are not responsible then. Luke and leia had no intention of anakin being vader. But their very existence caused that.
  21. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Well, I'm sure they exist because Anakin and Padme had relations, so their existance can be blamed on their parents.
  22. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Correct.
  23. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
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    If anakin never broke the jedi code and got into the romeo and juliet relationship with padme, he never would've become darth vader, empire would not have existed. I'm not making it up. George lucas said that anakin and padme's relationship had "Ramifications for the entire galaxy".
  24. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
  25. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    So would the galaxy have been better off if Luke and Leia never existed?
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