Saga What is the legacy of Qui-Gon Jinn?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by BoromirsFan, Feb 23, 2012.

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  1. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    From a certain point of view...

    But had SIds turned Anakin via another means, they might have still been needed to turn Anakin back. Unclear, the hypothetical is.
    WIERD_GREEN_MAN likes this.
  2. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Good point. But there are a few problems. Are you saying anakin's fate was predestined to turn to evil, and his wife having kids was the best way to turn him to evil since his kids could turn him back to good and he would be evil anyway?

    Also, how did luke and leia "redeem" Vader? Leia had nothing to do with it. Luke? Not even him. Vader saving luke from the emperor had little-no outcome on the final battle and the empire losing the war. The death star and empire was doomed anyway. Did luke sacrifice himself for Vader to turn against the emperor? Vader had no change of heart. Many dictators have families that they love and would protect, there is no "redemption" there. How was vader supposedly redeemed? Was he redeemed because he turned away from the darkside? Are sith evil just because they're sith and have dark magic powers? What was he redeemed from?

    How was leia involved in his "redemption"? Luke, maybe. Leia, she had nothing to do with it.
  3. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    Actually, you present a very good argument in regard to Anakin's actions in ROTJ. I don't know if I agree with you or not. I will have to think on it. But your argument is pretty good.


    Anakin did not create the Galactic Empire. Palpatine did. Not only did he receive help from Anakin, but also from the actions and decisions of the Galactic Senate and the Jedi Order.
    Last edited by DRush76, Oct 25, 2012
  4. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Palpatine being "emperor" was just a figurehead, a title, unless the republic's army agreed to serve him. Commander cody just betrayed the jedi and republic, simply because palpatine became emperor and he switched loyalties. Why did the army agree to serve him?

    Also, if they were loyal, why didn't they serve him beforehand? Why did they wait until he was "crowned" or "knighted" emperor?
  5. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Order 66. The clones were loyal to their Superior Officer, Palpatine, and were programmed (details still unknown, don't ask me) to obey. They obeyed as ordered (I understand in EU there were some clones who refused to obey.)
  6. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Were the clones slaves, basically? Did Palpatine rise to power and create the empire by having the clone army? Commander cody was not a clone of jango fett.
  7. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Cody was indeed a clone of Jango Fett as was Rex. They were certainly slaves of a sort - they were bred as organic droids for one purpose only - to serve the Republic through its Chancellor and designated others.
  8. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    @Lord Tyrannus, what Valairy Scot said: For every hypothetical, there's a long line of possibilities and probabilities.
  9. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    They looked nothing alike.
  10. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    That is your opinion.
    Canonically, they are clones of the same man. Some clones like to customize hair.
  11. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Do all clones look like identical twins? So boba fett and commander cody are the same person? Cody is a boba fett clone?
  12. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    Yes. All clones are the same biologically. They share DNA.
    There are not any human clones in our world, but there are identical twins. Identical twins also share DNA. Yet many identical twins look quite different - clothes, hair, makeup, body fat, etc.
  13. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Fraternal twins don't have the same exact dna. Only identical twins.
  14. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    That's what I said. Identical twins can look very different. They can have different hairstyles, weights, fashion choices.
    And in the TCW show, the animators use the same basic model for all clones. They are also all voiced by the same guy. Have I proved it to you now?
  15. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    How do they not look alike?

    [IMG]
  16. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Take the one on the right, dye his hair black and the two will no longer look alike.
  17. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    ^ That.
    I can find a picture too. These twins DON'T look alike. And I don't even have to post this picture. Canonically it has been confirmed that clones are clones.
    [IMG]
  18. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    They both have the same prototype physical appearence, with a few changes, but the same form. Compare them to a picture of robert pattinson and daniel radcliffe.
  19. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    Robert Pattinson and Daniel Radcliffe are not related.
    All TCW clones have the same prototype physical appearance, with a "few changes" involving age, hair, and armor.
    You can ask the animators. You can ask Filoni. You can ask Lucas himself.
  20. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4

    Can you please edit your posts instead of double posting so frequently?

    Also, can we go back on topic? It seems this whole thread is turning into answering whatever questions Lord Tyrannus has about the star wars saga.......

    Even though Luke has no connection to Qui-Gon, I feel it is important for him to know the truth.

    It might sound silly for me to care so much, but Qui-Gon is my favorite character in the saga, and it is a little disturbing to see how overlooked he gets as it progresses.

    Though it does make it interesting. Qui-Gon Jinn, the long forgotten jedi who discovered the chosen one.

    Its obviously impossible for GL to have known about Qui-Gon in the OT making, but I wished AOTC and ROTS brought him up more.

    He is only referred to by Dooku and Yoda.... I would have liked to have seen Anakin's feelings on Qui-Gon, we only see that in the microseries.
    Last edited by BoromirsFan, Oct 26, 2012
  21. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Ok, i'll stop doing that. That's true, if it wasn't for qui gon, anakin would still be a slave on tattoine and there would be no story. No luke and leia, either. The person who searches and finds the "hero" or "savior" figure is a cool archetype. I like how one small decision a character makes has a long-lasting and major effect on the last of the saga. One decision changes everything. That's a good technique for stories. That's one of the reasons i think SW has a brilliant story.

    They should add qui gon's ghost as the 5th ghost in Return of the Jedi. I mean, he's an important character, Luke never meets him, the OT was about the jedi being a mysterious order that was gone. In the ending celebration, the good guys force ghosts were watching over Luke. Why not put qui gon in there? He's the one who discovered the secret of immortality, too. He changed anakin's destiny. Luke never got to meet him in person. It just makes sense.

    I disagree. My favorite character is darth vader/anakin skywalker. The reason is, his physical transformation and awesome character history in the prequels, which made the originals 100x better, and combining anakin's story in both trilogies is way more enjoyable than only liking one trilogy.

    Yeah. Some prequel-nitpickers complain that qui gon wasn't in the originals. But Lucas did not invent it all at once. That's an unfair claim of them to make. Qui gon's death did not lead to anakin's fall to the darkside. Qui gon's loss wasn't as bad as shmi or padme or mace windu, to anakin.
  22. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Leia was not needed to turn anakin back. Only luke. You said "they" implying both luke and leia. Only luke was needed. Leia did not redeem vader at all.
  23. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    They may not look 100% alike, but their basic physical appearence is still identical, regardless of a few changes like clothes or hair color.
  24. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    And the clones do not look 100% alike, but have the same basic physical appearance, regardless of a few changes like clothes or hair color.
  25. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    I don't get this comment. Are you stating that Shmi, Padme and Mace Windu are the only ones who contributed to Anakin's fall? Mace is the only Jedi you listed?
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