Saga What is the legacy of Qui-Gon Jinn?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by BoromirsFan, Feb 23, 2012.

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  1. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Anakin was upset he chose not to save windu from palps. "What have i done", proves this. Look up wookipedia. When anakin saved his son it said "he had done nothing to prevent windu's death, he couldnt save his mother, he lost his wife"etc
  2. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    At that point Anakin realized he had made a deal with the devil and was doomed to the dark-side. He didn't "fail to prevent Windu's death" he actively participated in Windu's murder.
    Last edited by The Supreme Chancellor, Oct 26, 2012
  3. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    The emperor killed windu, not anakin. How was anakin doomed to the darkside? He had the choice to turn his back on Palpatine and back to the jedi at that point. He was too afraid and became darth vader out of a moment of panic. That's something I dislike about the prequels.
  4. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    No. He was doomed to the dark-side because he killed Windu. He could never turn back to the Jedi, and turning against Palpatine meant the death of Padme and very likely his own death. Even his best friend Obi-Wan decided that he had no choice but to kill Anakin. Anakin participated in Windu's death by wounding/disarming him. Have you watched ROTS?
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  5. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    He says he has, but acts like he hasn't.
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  6. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Yes. I watched it when it first came out. One of my favorite memories?

    How was he doomed to the darkside for helping palpatine kill windu? He could never turn back to the Jedi? They would probably arrest or kill him for betraying windu. So he turned to the darkside to save his own life from the Jedi? The Jedi are the reason he turned to the darkside? If they accepted him after making a mistake he wouldn't have turned to the darkside. At that point, what should he have done, to make the right decision?

    How would turning against Palpatine mean Padme's death and his own death?

    If mace windu lived, would anakin have turned to the darkside? Are you saying he turned to the darkside because he was an accomplice in killing a Jedi so he was afraid the Jedi would'nt accept him after that? I thought he turned to save padme.
  7. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Dude. How old are you?

    "How would turning against Palpatine mean Padme's death and his own death?" : from Anakin's POV Padme would have died without Palpatine's teachings. We know this to be untrue but Anakin misinterpreted his vision.

    Are you saying he turned to the darkside because he was an accomplice in killing a Jedi so he was afraid the Jedi would'nt accept him after that? I thought he turned to save padme" ---- He needed to learn the ways of the dark-side to "save" Padme, but he didn't truly want to truly become a Sith. After the murder of Mace Windu he had no way of turning back. While the Jedi do forgive for mistakes, some mistakes such as murdering a Jedi Master who has looked out for you since you were 10 are unforgivable.
  8. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    If mace windu survived falling down Coruscant and anakin knew it, would he have turned to the darkside?

    You proved my point. Anakin turned to the darkside to save his life because he helped to kill a jedi master, and they wouldn't forgive that. So, Vader did the right thing. He turned to protect himself. Regardles of the bad things the empire did, vader did it to protect himself against the jedi.

    The saddest part is that once you're in the darkside, you're already consumed in it. That's why vader stayed a sith for over 20 years. Just because the jedi.
  9. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    This is one of the reasons why you dislike the Prequel Trilogy? Okay, but . . . Anakin's behavior and decisions struck me as something that would and have led many to a darker path or action. It's human behavior.


    None of us know if that is a fact. There is no certainty in that statement . . . even if Yoda believes it is.
    Last edited by DRush76, Oct 27, 2012
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  10. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    What you need is a Rocky Balboa montage during Anakins funeral. I think that would satisfy you. You should make a montage video and post it here let us see it. I love those saga compilations on youtube.
  11. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    That's not your point. one post earlier you said Anakin turned to safe Padme, so which is it? Right, Vader ruled an oppressive Empire to save his own life, that was the right decision. Just like how the Nazi's murdered tons of Jews to save themselves.
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  12. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    No, that isn't my thing. A montage during anakin's funeral would be jarring.
  13. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    Well then you gotta take what's there.
  14. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    lol obviously. I never meant that I hoped GL altered the originals to make Qui-Gon appear or be mentioned, I was just disappointed at how large of a role he had in TPM only for him to get nothing in AOTC and ROTS.

    Perhaps Anakin could have mentioned him or something...

    Of course, this means it is up to US the fans to decide what role qui-gon played.

    I am glad that GL changed it so that Qui-Gon found anakin, not obi-wan. Qui-gon's a much more dynamic and interesting Jedi.
    Last edited by BoromirsFan, Oct 28, 2012
  15. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Agreed. Do you remember when Anakin has an outburst about Qui-Gon prior to him being knighted in the CW miniseries. I felt like that moment summed up perfectly how Anakin felt about Qui-Gon. In his eyes Qui-Gon was the perfect Jedi Master that Obi-Wan couldn't be. I think GL should have reused that dialogue when Obi-Wan asks Anakin to spy on Sidious.
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  16. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    No Jedi could have lived up the idealized image that Anakin had of Qui-Gon - the man freed him and was almost instantly killed. Instant hero with no messy "real life" involved. No surprise to me that Anakin all but worshipped Qui-Gon.
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  17. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    its in the EU but not in the movies. I just wish it was in the movies, cause its easier to get a grasp on Qui-Gon's legacy from the EU, as he talks to Obi-Wan post ROTS
  18. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    Yes I see what you mean & I agree with you. There are many ways they could have done this also. They could have used Qui Gons name in place of that Syfa Dias, I would have loveds to see some Dooku in TPM & more Tarkin in ROTS.
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  19. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 3
    I agree with this particular point that you made.

    But they were. The council foresaw the dangers. Qui-Gon couldn't see beyond a prophecy which "misread, might have been.." and his ability to arbitrate upon the will of the Force. Remember that he was Dooku's apprentice, and that Dooku's flaw is his overblown pride in his own abilities and judgement.

    Qui-Gon even states that "we are not here to free slaves", but then does exactly that, and he (mis)uses the force to cheat in a bet in order to do so.

    Despite the Council turning down his request to train Anakin, and giving very good reasons why (the very predictability required by you for responsibility), it is clear that Qui-Gon intends to train the boy anyway - claiming that he must take the boy on a Jedi mission because he had told Schmi he would look after the boy (though he was then content to leave him unguarded in fighter on Naboo..). So sure of his own judgement is he that, rather than caring for his own padawan's well-being and state of mind as he lay dying he makes him swear to train Anakin.
  20. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    This is incorrect. Order 66 was planned since before the Sith ever heard of Anakin.
  21. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Wasn't that because Darth Maul had just walked into the room?

    This bit, however, I do think shows a little overconfidence in Obi-Wan (and thus, his own judgement that Obi-Wan is capable).

    During, I think, Legacy of the Jedi, Dooku tells Qui-Gon that his "flaw" is his insistance on befriending people, and his trust in them.

    Qui-Gon later tells Obi-Wan, that his flaw, if he has one, is simply "You wish to please me too much."

    which is right- Obi-Wan made that promise to train Anakin for that reason.
  22. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 3
    But he needed something to show as evidence that the Jedi were allegedly trying to takeover the Republic. We are told by Obi-Wan that Bail Organa's invitation to the Senate is unlikely to be a trap as Palpatine would need the Senators on side so that he might keep order in the systems. Windu was already on his way to arrest Palpatine when Anakin informs him of his Sith persona. Palpatine needed the Jedi to attack him (which they would) in order to enact Order 66, and without Anakin, Windu would have defeated him.
  23. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 3
    Yes, Maul has entered the room but my point really was, taking Anakin on a Jedi mission was hardly the best course of action in terms of taking care of him. he would have been better off in the care of the Jedi Temple. Qui-Gon took him not to keep his promise to Schmi, but because he had already decided to train him anyway, with or without the Jedi's agreement.

    As for a "little overconfidence" in Obi-Wan's ability to train Anakin...... he was still a padawan.
  24. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    He doesn't need an attack to enact Order 66. When Cody heard "the time has come", he wasn't told anything about an attack. Palpatine can enact Order 66 whenever he wants. He can also claim the Jedi attempted to take over even if they didn't.
  25. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 3
    This is true, but in order for his Empire to last he has to have the Senate on-board, as Obi-Wan points out to Bail Organa - and the requirement for the Jedi attack prior to Order 66 is made clear in the ROTS novel.
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