What is the overall opinion of Darth Sidious now after watching ROTS?

Sidious is an amazing strategist and a master of manipualtion. He weaved his diabolical plan in outstanding, almost flawless way. But that also led to his downfall IMO. As Luke said, his over confidence was his weakness, which is why Vader killed him. But you can see where his confidence stems from, when you watch ROTS. It shows that in his mind, he is unbeatable, and he demonstrates this in a majestic way. However, he got caught out in ROTJ. And I love that!!!!!

 

that wouldnt work.wether we like it or not dooku CAN use lightning too

 

that wouldnt work.wether we like it or not dooku CAN use lightning too

I think people would have a better impression of the Emperor if Dooku didn't use lightning. They would see him as more of a Wunderkind, as he was perceived in ROTJ. If this was the case, people wouldn't have a problem accepting that lightning is more powerful than a saber.

 

I think people would have a better impression of the Emperor if Dooku didn't use lightning

but he DID use lightning.its a fact already COUNT DOOKU CAN USE LIGHTNING.all we can do is accept what already is


If this was the case, people wouldn't have a problem accepting that lightning is more powerful than a saber.

it doesnt depends on the weapon but on who uses it

 

it doesnt depends on the weapon but on who uses it

This sounds right. How a saber compares in power to lightning depends on who's using it. However, I think the films would have given us a better overall impression of the Emperor if he was the only person to use lightning. This would make it look like his lightning is better than anyone else's saber.

 

wow- your basing your arguements in the yoda vs sidious thread on the fact that you THINK the empoere should be god

 

imo I always thought the emporer was weaker in the OT. He just seemed like an old man who never really saw any action like Vader did.

I think most of the population considered Vader to be the #1 villian and strongest of the duo. Sidious was just more of a mentor and political leader.

After watching RotS I saw Sidious as more powerful than I thought before. This time we actually see him use a lightsaber, kill some Jedi, throw pods, and fry someone to death (or at least out a window). He doesn't seem invincible as I believe Mace almost beat him, but he doesn't seem like a geriatric seat warmer.

 

This sounds right. How a saber compares in power to lightning depends on who's using it. However, I think the films would have given us a better overall impression of the Emperor if he was the only person to use lightning. This would make it look like his lightning is better than anyone else's saber.

this is more than i can take.for the sake of the thread and my own im officially leaving it for a while

 

I think the problem with ROTS is that it didn't meet people's expectations of the Emperor. I heard someone say that he expected the Emperor to dominante all of his fights. The film would work better this way. After all, the highlight of ROTJ was seeing the Emperor dominante and completely humiliate Luke. It would be great to see him do this to Mace and Yoda the entire time.

 

I heard someone say that he expected the Emperor to dominante all of his fights

and where was that ?......

 

I think another major problem with ROTS is people think the Emperor was humiliated more than Yoda was. In ROTJ, the Emperor was the person who humiliated Luke with his awesome powers. This is the way it should be, because he's the ultimate villain. ROTS would have given fans a more satisfactory image of the Emperor if he was more dominating in his duels.

 

I think another major problem with ROTS is people think the Emperor was humiliated more than Yoda was.

Not me. To me, it looked the Palps was having the fun time of life against Yoda.

 

What is the overall opinion of Darth Sidious now after watching ROTS?

Palpatine is the Ultimate Overachiever. He really should write self help books, and do public speaking tours on how to be all that you can.

 

All I have to say is... very funny.

 

It appears that some people see the Emperor in a less dominating light because of ROTS. This is probably because he isn't the only person who used lightning, and his lightning was blocked with a saber. The latter reveals a physical weakness about lightning that people were previously unaware of. This can drastically change how effective people think the Emperor's powers are.

In ROTJ, the Emperor referred to lightning as "the power of the dark side". Would you think this means other Sith lords can use it? Do you think the Emperor would have referred to it as his own power rather than the power of the dark side if he was the only person who ever used it? Palpatine also referred to the ability to cheat death as "the power of the dark side", and supposedly only one person has learned to use it.

 

Back when I first saw ROTJ I saw Yoda and Palpatine as in a league of their own, that they didn't need lightsabers to protect themselves e.g. the Emperor's lightning.

But the thing is, now that Lucas went back and presented the backstory, whether I like it or not (I sometimes miss the mystery behind the SW characters ) neither Yoda nor Sidious was all powerful. My views of both have been reshaped greatly. As Lucas says on the commentary in regards to Grievous, he didn't want him to be incredibly powerful, he wanted him to be able to fight, but not be all that impressive. Lucas wanted Grievous to be LIKE SIDIOUS which he continues to define as intelligent, cunning, and somewhat of a coward. So now my view of Sidious has changed from the Emperor being so powerful that he doesn't need a weapon, to him being a behind-the-scenes genius that uses others to do the fighting for him. He kept looking for an apprentice that was more and more powerful, even more powerful than himself, and rather than fearing the power of Vader he was confident that he could control it to pursue his own goals, and he could, until Luke came along.

The fact that Sidious went from being all powerful to a weaker genius in my mind isn't a bad trade off. It actually makes the story better in my opinion as Sidious' success didn't depend on his power but on his abilities to manipulate people and it's tragic because the whole plot could have fallen apart had someone saw that they were being manipulated.

 

Back when I first saw ROTJ I saw Yoda and Palpatine as in a league of their own, that they didn't need lightsabers to protect themselves e.g. the Emperor's lightning.

But the thing is, now that Lucas went back and presented the backstory, whether I like it or not (I sometimes miss the mystery behind the SW characters sad ) neither Yoda nor Sidious was all powerful. My views of both have been reshaped greatly. As Lucas says on the commentary in regards to Grievous, he didn't want him to be incredibly powerful, he wanted him to be able to fight, but not be all that impressive. Lucas wanted Grievous to be LIKE SIDIOUS which he continues to define as intelligent, cunning, and somewhat of a coward. So now my view of Sidious has changed from the Emperor being so powerful that he doesn't need a weapon, to him being a behind-the-scenes genius that uses others to do the fighting for him.

Do you mean that initially you thought the Emperor was much more powerful than everyone else and that Yoda is the only person who could rival him? This basically supports my theory that people see the Emperor as being weaker in ROTS.

Some people have said that the Emperor doesn't look weaker in ROTS, pointing out that he's merely fighting stronger opponents and the fact that he was easily killed in ROTJ. I pointed out that something must have happened in ROTJ to make people think the Emperor is all-powerful.

People probably assumed that no one could counter lightning, and the Emperor didn't even need a saber (except for possibly against Yoda, who's another very powerful Force user). Seeing lightning blocked can drastically change people's perspectives on how effective the power is.

I don't think Yoda looks any less powerful in the PT because we never even saw him fight during the OT. The PT proves that he's very effective in battle. However, the same cannot be said for the Emperor. He appears a lot less effective in combat as a result of ROTS.

The fact that Sidious went from being all powerful to a weaker genius in my mind isn't a bad trade off.

I think that making the Emperor look weaker is the worst possible thing that could happen to the saga. His character seemed so much more dignified in ROTJ because of his amazing powers. The Emperor was someone you could be in awe of and look up to in terms of power. I like the idea of an ultimate villain who's ultra-powerful because it makes him seem more frightening and menacing.

 

I think that making the Emperor look weaker is the worst possible thing that could happen to the saga. His character seemed so much more dignified in ROTJ because of his amazing powers. The Emperor was someone you could be in awe of and look up to in terms of power. I like the idea of an ultimate villain who's ultra-powerful because it makes him seem more frightening and menacing.

i dont see how he is weaker he demonstrated that he can defeat stronger oponents and not young mans with little training who have no defenses,he still looks menacing to me because he is IMO the stronger character in the saga except for pre suit darth vader...for what i saw in the movie i think that pre suit vader would likely defeat him with a lightsaber

 

I suppose there's two ways that people could view the Emperor in ROTS. One is to think that he seems less powerful because there's limitations to his lightning. Another is to think that he's simply facing much stronger competition in the OT, which is why he doesn't dominate his duels as much as he dominated Luke.

Its difficult to determine what everyone would think of the Emperor. The novels describe Luke as not even knowing force lightning existed and thinking its such a corruption of the Force. Perhaps he would be less impressed by the Emperor if he knew lightning could be blocked with a saber, or maybe Luke intuitively knew that a saber can counter lightning.

 

Just how much did Sidious forsee/plan everything? For example:

- Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan would survive the failed negotiations and rescue the Queen. He was upset that Amidala got past the blockade. "Grr. I want that treaty signed!"

- The Battle of Naboo would be won by a boy named Anakin. Palpatine seemed a bit miffed that this kid won the battle. "We will watch your career with great interest."

- Shmi would be kidnapped by Sandpeople, and Anakin would rescue her only to lose her, and he would slaughter the entire village.

- Anakin and Padme would fall in love and secretly marry.

- Obi-Wan and Anakin would "rescue" him successfully from Grievous. There were a couple of near-death situations during that rescue, like the elevator shaft. He seemed afraid while Anakin tried to land what was left of Grievous' ship. Of course, that must've been an act. Was he so confident in the skills of Anakin and Obi-Wan?

Perhaps not only is Sidious a master manipulator, but also a master opportunist. He is able to adapt his plans to any changes or circumstances that may occur. He may not have forseen Shmi getting kidnapped and dying, but he used it to rationalize and fuel Anakin's desire for revenge. He may not have forseen Anakin and Padme getting married, but he was able to use Anakin's attachment to Padme to make him turn to the Dark Side.

 

The emperor in ROTJ is portrayed as the most powerful force user, next to Yoda, so again I dont have a problem with them going toe to toe for a draw, but Mace clearly beats him, and to me that totally contradicts with the ROTJ Emperor.


I couldn't agree more. People got the impression that the Emperor was leagues ahead of everyone else from ROTJ. Its a shame that ROTS caused some people to change how they feel about the Emperor's powers.

It seems a lot of people thought Yoda was the Emperor's equal, even in the OT. If this is the case, the Yoda duel wouldn't have hurt the Emperor's reputation because people already regarded Yoda as an extremely powerful Jedi Master. I thought some people might have viewed the Emperor as more powerful than anyone, even Yoda, because of the lightning. Seeing lightning blocked appears to be what hurt the Emperor's character and made people think his powers are less impressive.

 

What really made me more confused was in AOTC, Yoda vs. Dooku was pretty much a draw, and yes Dooku took off, but it was more to deliver the plans of the death star to Sidious. I didn't like that Yoda seemed not as powerful in AOTC, just as I really didn't like that Sidious didn't seem nearly as powerful as he was in ROTJ. ROTS knocked the Emperor down a peg for me, and now when I watch ROTJ, those scenes just don't work as well taking in the context of all 6 movies, but if you just look at the saga as 4,5,6, all these unanswered doubts and questions fall by the wasteside.

 

just as I really didn't like that Sidious didn't seem nearly as powerful as he was in ROTJ. ROTS knocked the Emperor down a peg for me, and now when I watch ROTJ, those scenes just don't work as well taking in the context of all 6 movies, but if you just look at the saga as 4,5,6, all these unanswered doubts and questions fall by the wasteside.

I've been trying to say this all along. Other people have said the Emperor doesn't look weaker or that its richer for the story if he's less powerful, bit I don't feel that way. I think the films are much more exciting if you see the Emperor as ultra-powerful. This is how he appeared in ROTJ and was a major reason why I liked him so much.

Some people say that the Emperor isn't less powerful in ROTS; he's simply fighting stronger opponents. This is true to a certain extent, especially since many people already perceived Yoda as being at the Emperor's level. However, seeing lightning blocked with a saber drastically changes how effective people think his powers are. They will think that lightning isn't as effective of a weapon no matter what opponent the Emperor is facing. People get the impression that anyone can block lightning with a saber, even if that isn't true.

Its possible that not everyone can block lightning with a saber. Yoda was disarmed by lightning and the youth novel says that he was knocked off the pod by a strong blast of lightning during their saber duel. Lightning covers a much greater distance than a saber, so its possible that Jedi have to use the Force to make sure the lightning doesn't get past the saber. For this reason, a Jedi who's weaker than Yoda or Mace might be easily overpowered by the Emperor's lightning even if they have a saber.

There's so many different views about the Emperor, its difficult to know which one is correct. The ROTS novel says that Luke didn't even know force lightning existed and thought it was such a corruption of the Force. I don't know if Luke would be less impressed by lightning if he knew Jedi can block it with sabers, or if he intuitively assumed that a saber can block anything- even lightning. I think people would have a better impression of the Emperor if his powers were consistent with how they were portrayed in ROTJ.

 

Darth Sidious is the best villian in cinema history he just tricked the jedi sooo bad they had no clue he was a sith lord. he impressed me with his ability to trick the jedi into his master plan, turn anakin to dark side, kill three powerful jedi masters, beat yoda fair and square, exterminate the jedi, and best of all he won how many movies have you wished the villian beat the good guys aka james bond. any thoughts.............

 

Darth Sidious is the best villian in cinema history he just tricked the jedi sooo bad they had no clue he was a sith lord. he impressed me with his ability to trick the jedi into his master plan, turn anakin to dark side, kill three powerful jedi masters, beat yoda fair and square, exterminate the jedi, and best of all he won how many movies have you wished the villian beat the good guys aka james bond. any thoughts.............

This is an excellent post. I had a similar impression of the Emperor. I thought it was great that he was able to easily overpower the hero (Luke) in ROTJ. There aren't too many films where you see the hero being owned by the villain, which made me think Star Wars is innovative and much better than your typical good vs. evil melodrama.

I've been thinking about the Emperor's portrayal in ROTS lately. Obviously, my biggest complaint has been about the deflection of lightning. I think the most accurate way to settle this issue is to try and imagine what the characters in the film would be thinking, rather than what the audience might have thought.

We don't know everything that Luke is thinking in the films, but the ROTJ novel gives us some insight. It says that Luke had never heard of such a corruption of the Force such as lightning. He tries to block it with his hands and is half successful at first, but eventually the Emperor overwhelms him with the lightning to the point that Luke is defenseless.

I know that Luke didn't block any lightning in the film, but the novel might give us an idea in regards to what he thought about the Emperor's powers. He's deflected blaster bolts with a saber in the films, and tries to block lightning in the novel. Do you think Luke would have assumed that Jedi can block lightning with a saber?

The other issue regards whether other Sith lords can use lightning. The Emperor calls it "the power of the dark side". Would you interpret this to mean other dark side users can use it? Would the Emperor be more likely to call it his own power rather than the power of the dark side if he's the only person who can generate lightning? He also calls the ability to cheat death "the power of the dark side", and supposedly only one person has learned the power.