What is the overall opinion of Darth Sidious now after watching ROTS?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by r8hitman, Jun 13, 2005.

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  1. 1obi-wan-kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2004
    star 1
  2. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    I've been thinking about my perception of the Emperor after hearing him discussed on some threads. It was good to see him with a lightsaber; mowing down three Jedi Masters was certainly impressive especially since many people thought he couldn't even use a lightsaber. I don't think anyone could kill three Jedi Masters that quickly with just force powers. However, the one aspect that makes him look bad in this film is force lightning is not 100% effective. After seeing ROTJ, everyone probably thought the Emperor could electrocute anyone the way he did with Luke, so the Emperor could never be beaten in one on one combat if he used force lightning. I understand that Mace and Yoda are much more skilled than Luke, but unfortunately I think it makes the Emperor and his lightning seem much less impressive in some people's eyes. It might have been better for the character if his lightning was unstoppable, and no one could deflect it.
  3. Luke_Kenobi1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    The most evil and powerful Character in the Saga .
  4. Vaeron Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 2005
    star 1
    Definitely a master manipulator, who wins even when it seems like he loses... The Trade Federation loses, but Pals becomes Chancellor... The Seperatists get smashed by the clones, but Sidious secretly controls the clones too... Mace beats him up, but he uses that to destroy the entire Jedi order.

    I can't help but admire his cleverness, the speed at which he turns failed or seemingly failed plans back to his advantage, or even the cleverness of GL in devising Palp's schemes in the first place.

    To win big you have to risk big, and Palpatine does. It catches up with him in the end when Anakin betrays him, but who can blame him after it worked so many times previously?
  5. lord_dalton Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2005
    star 1
    Lord Sidious is the greatest sith ever. He let Mace disarm him, he is the greatest force user ever. He took opver the repubic and crushed the jedi and had control of everthing for like 30 years or something. so yes i'm happy in the way he was portrayed.
  6. emporergerner Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2005
    star 4
    I love Darth Sidous. He has so much patience and eventually has the republic and Jedi crumble over him.
  7. TheCRZA Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 4
    I thought he was just a one-dimensional bad guy in ROTJ. No depth.
    Just a one trick pony.

    Having witnessed his rise to power, and use of power in ROTS,
    I think he's pretty awesome.
  8. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    I'll have to disagree with you on that CRZA....I thought the emperor was more mysterious and powerful in ROTJ. I always perceived him as being an ancient mystical, living embodiment of the darkside.

    Now after watching him in action in ROTS he just doesnt seem the same to me.

    Maybe it's that age thing bothering me again, who knows.:confused:
  9. arbed Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2004
    star 5
    Sids is the Sithiest creep ever to hit the screen. A real cunning ******* who ####'s things up for everyone. 'Nuf said. Ha.
  10. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    He kills Jedi quickly and efficiently. I love it. "Commander Cody, execute order 66" [face_devil]
  11. jedi_ethan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2005
    star 3
    The question here is what is the overall opinion of Darth Sidious after watching ROTS. Stay on topic and don't assure he let Windu disarm him, becasue that's a speculation, and the opinion for this thread should be based on what is proved. I mean if the yes voters base their opinion in the supposition that Mace was allowed to win and use it as a truth, then we the no voters will have no other choice but to contradict it and this thread will turn again into one about Mace vs Sidious. So we better leave the faking or not faking aside.
  12. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    ROTS brought home to me just how evil this guy really is. I mean, I always viewed him as totally evil, but I never experienced it the way I did in this movie.
    In the end, when he told Vader that he killed Padmé and then smiled as Vader howled in grief, I could feel the vastness of his lack of compassion. He doesn't give a **** about Vader's, or anyone else's, feelings. He uses other people's feelings to get what he wants: absolute power, with which he can torture and laugh at the citizens of the galaxy to his hearts delight. He takes pleasure in other people's pain. Nothing else appeals to him.

    Great character! Quite two-dimensional, but McDiarmid makes him as great as he could ever have been.



    Sidious - he's insidious
    /LM
  13. JawaStew Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2005
    star 3
    Ian McDiarmid could not have portrayed him better.

    As R8 points out, some of his mystery is lost in making him 'real', which in some ways deadens the effect of him. However, I think Lucas scripted his machinations so perfectly that the viewer is able to be even more impressed once Sidious' character and the story of how he single-handedly orchestrated the destruction of the Jedi and the dissolution of the Galactic democracy. It was necessary to explain, and though difficult, I think he retains some of his (and the Sith's) mystery in the end anyway. In particular, the Sith Knighting gives me chills because he is so daemonic.

    I think that the lightning should never have been used by Dooku - it should have remained Sidious' trump card. Moreover, I think the idea of lightsabers 'deflecting' or 'absorbing' it was a bad one. It *should* be overwhelmingly powerful, perhaps only stoppable by sumpreme force control, such as Yoda shows us.

    I loved the fact that Lucas made him a wicked duellist - even if the portrayal was a bit strange in the Office.

    For my part, I like to believe that he is the greatest duellist (perhaps behind only a future Anakin), not because I like him as such, but because I think to make a compelling story about goodness and evil, it makes more sense that evil is more powerful - but goodness can and will overcome it, in the end, without weapons but simple love - a la Luke.

    I think as well that it suits the manipulative genious that mostly everyone will agree that Sidious is if he had faked the duel - not because I dislike Windu but because it makes a better story. I think that a unstoppably powerful Sidious, steeped in Dark Side hatred and power, makes the eventual resurgence of the Light, using no weapons in the end, is more fitting and in keeping with Star Wars morality.

    When goodness wins with guns, how good is it really? How noble a choice is goodness if it offers the same advantage (power) as evil? That's the Dark Side's lure.

    To me, Sidious became a far more interesting character after seeing his genious, if nothing else, in the PT. If anything with regards to his power, I would have it that he was indisputably displayed as being beyond any Jedi's capabilities, including Yoda or Windu.
  14. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    I think that the lightning should never have been used by Dooku - it should have remained Sidious' trump card. Moreover, I think the idea of lightsabers 'deflecting' or 'absorbing' it was a bad one. It *should* be overwhelmingly powerful, perhaps only stoppable by sumpreme force control, such as Yoda shows us.


    I agree with that 100%.

    Dooku never should have used lightning and the part about the sabers and the lightning was also true.

    To see Yoda block Sidious' lightning for the first time in ROTS would have been amazing.
  15. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    I think that the lightning should never have been used by Dooku - it should have remained Sidious' trump card. Moreover, I think the idea of lightsabers 'deflecting' or 'absorbing' it was a bad one. It *should* be overwhelmingly powerful, perhaps only stoppable by sumpreme force control, such as Yoda shows us.

    This is an excellent point that I've been trying to explain in other threads. The reason why I liked the Emperor so much in ROTJ was because he was so evil and his lightning seemed so powerful. I think that having his lightning deflected completely undermines the character and ruins the movie. Some people will see him as less powerful and his lightning as less deadly if they think it can be easily deflected with a saber or with someone's hands.

    This is not a good thing because the Emperor's appeal initially came from him being portrayed as much more powerful than the other characters. When you first saw him use lightning, people probably thought he was in a class of his own and that he could kill anyone just as easily as he almost killed Luke. I've heard people say that they don't think he showed any amazing power in this film and that force lightning isn't that great. I strongly doubt that anyone would say that after seeing ROTJ for the first time. Therefore, I believe that ROTS has only served to undermine the ultimate villain of the saga by making him seem less powerful in some people's minds.

    I'll have to disagree with you on that CRZA....I thought the emperor was more mysterious and powerful in ROTJ. I always perceived him as being an ancient mystical, living embodiment of the darkside.

    Now after watching him in action in ROTS he just doesnt seem the same to me.

    Maybe it's that age thing bothering me again, who knows


    This is also a good observation. As I said, I think its the Emperor's lightning being deflected that makes people think he's less powerful and ruins his image. People might have considered him ultra-powerful after ROTJ, but I think less people would say that after ROTS.

    Edit: Dooku never should have used lightning and the part about the sabers and the lightning was also true.

    Even McDiarmid said he was furious that Dooku used blue lightning because he thought that was his prerogative. This is another reason why the prequels have done more harm than good to the image of the Emperor.
  16. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    let me get this staright farrelg,Mcdiarmid was angry or palpatine was suposed to be angry ??.

    i dont get this point .

    i agree they should have shown only yoda blocking lightning with the force.
  17. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I can agree with the lightning to some extent, even though it doesn't bother me(and the scene with Mace blocking lightnings with his lightsaber is perfect), but IMO, Palpatine is a much more enjoyable character since ROTS came out. He seems more evil and that's all for the good, because he isn't anything but evil.



    Lightnings are neat
    /LM
  18. JawaStew Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2005
    star 3
    I'm thinking that the motivation behind this thread is what R8 had mentioned above - the mystery, the age, the dark unknown appeal of Sidious is lost because we see the man at work. Also, as you say farrellg, the lightning, the Emperor's power, the Dark Side itself all lose something when the lightning is used by anyone else, or blocked. Agreed - if only Yoda had blocked it, it would have meant something.

    Jedi_Ethan, I'm only putting that in because it's relevant to this topic and my views on Sidious after the PT. That is why so many people have been debating the Sidious / Windu duel with such fervor.

    I think if it were revealed that Sidious was in fact ancient, it would have helped. Maybe some clips of him into some hardcore dark arcana would have reminded us that he is not a normal man. But this is also the reason I prefer the Sidious True Face to the Disfigurement argument - because you expect him to look like that. Disfigurement seems to corporeal and material - he is a twisted and corrupt soul, daemonic and foul to the core.

    Again, I'm not starting those debates, nor inviting anyone else to. But this topic can't help but touch on these things. Sidious was the second most important character in ROTS and he is the prime mover of the plot - not Anakin, even if Anakin is the main character.
  19. jedi_ethan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2005
    star 3
    Perhaps. But I also consider it gives more importance to the Emperor's lightning if Dooku's was easily blocked by Yoda, however he has to struggle so much with the Emperor's. It makes him look more powerful
  20. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    let me get this staright farrelg,Mcdiarmid was angry or palpatine was suposed to be angry ??.

    McDiarmid the real person was angry, not Palpatine the character. He didn't like the fact that another actor got to use his signature move.
  21. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    its understandable but dooku's lightning is way weaker so that should make it up to Ian;)
  22. Qui-Gon-Sin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Are there really different levels of sith lightning? I kind of thought once this skill is learned, no matter who is using it, it can be just as deadly.
    Dooku plastered Anakin up against a wall with it afterall.When sidious first pelted Yoda with it, Yoda only went flying because he wasn't ready for the attack.
    During the rest of the duel...Yoda seemed to be able to hold it off.
    I'm not saying Sids isn't more powerful than Dooku, just that Sith lightning should be the same level for each user.
    Dooku's didn't strike me as weak at all. Perhaps Sidious could shoot lightning for longer than Dooku, but I'm not sure about overall intensity.
  23. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    Are there really different levels of sith lightning? I kind of thought once this skill is learned, no matter who is using it, it can be just as deadly.
    Dooku plastered Anakin up against a wall with it afterall.When sidious first pelted Yoda with it, Yoda only went flying because he wasn't ready for the attack.
    During the rest of the duel...Yoda seemed to be able to hold it off.
    I'm not saying Sids isn't more powerful than Dooku, just that Sith lightning should be the same level for each user.
    Dooku's didn't strike me as weak at all. Perhaps Sidious could shoot lightning for longer than Dooku, but I'm not sure about overall intensity.


    The Emperor used two hands for lightning, while Dooku only used one. So right there, the Emperor should be shooting twice as much lightning. Obi-Wan effortlessly deflected Dooku's lightning with his saber, but Mace looked like he was struggling and using all his stregnth to do deflect the Emperor's lightning. Yoda never failed to block Dooku's lightning, but was hit by the Emperor's. Even during the final lightning struggle, Yoda was grimacing in pain as he started to deflect lightning. He was never in pain while deflecting Dooku's lightning. All of this leads me to believe that the Emperor's lightning is more intense than Dooku's.
  24. JawaStew Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2005
    star 3
    Yoda had no difficulty with Dooku's lightning, but severe trouble with Sidious'.

    I'm sure ANY dose of lightning is not going to feel nice - but I would assume Dooku cannot generate the same force or sustain it as long as Sidious can...
  25. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I think Palpatine's lightning attack seems stronger. Compare Obi-Wan blocking Dooku's lightning attack with his lightsaber with Mace blocking Palpatine's with his.



    Palpatine is strong
    /LM
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