Saga What is the Skywalker Saga?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by CoolyFett, Nov 1, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Another thing to bear in mind regarding the future of SW is that, based on what can be pieced together, virtually everything that GL had put together about the Prequel Trilogy before he sat down to write it in the early 1990s was already publicly known.
    Despite a few contradictions in the details regarding the Emperor, the bare bones of how the Republic collapsed & became the Galactic Empire was in the prologue to the novelisation of Star Wars, published in 1976, there for all to see before the very first film had even been released.
    The volcano duel between Obi-Wan Kenobi and Darth Vader was outlined in GL's interview with Rolling Stone, even before it was determined that Darth Vader was once the father of Luke Skywalker. There was further elaboration about Anakin Skywalker's fate in the novelisation of ROTJ, along with what little story existed regarding Mother Skywalker and how baby Leia was taken to live with Bail Organa & his wife on Alderaan (largely abandoned), some of which even made it into the shooting script of ROTJ.

    Beyond that, it doesn't really seem that GL had much else thought through (he admitted to throwing a few ideas for the PT out & starting over). For all the poring over the OT & tidbits in 1980s articles that went on during the 1990s in a desperate attempt to anticipate just what would happen in the new trilogy, it seems that everything that had ever really existed in the mind of George Lucas regarding Episodes I-III, we knew already. When GL began writing the PT for real, he was starting essentially from scratch, with a few plot points he was stuck with, and which were well known.

    This was a series of films he was far more committed to than the vague Sequel Trilogy of Eps VII-IX - they had been created as part of the backstory to the films he was working on, and were bound by the events of the OT. The Sequel Trilogy, however, owes nothing to anyone, and GL has been denying its very existence for over a decade. Just what the "outlines for 7-9" he claims he has and is giving to the new writers could be anything, and given how little really existed for the PT by the 1990s, it's pretty ludicrous to think that there's ever been much for this bastard trilogy of SW at all, let alone anything relevant that still exists.

    We've picked apart every detail we could in other threads in a desperate attempt to figure out what it might have been about back in the late 1970s/early 1980s, and it looks as if anything for the ST ever did exist, developments in ROTJ & the PT sent them straight to hell (the 'Other' mentioned by Yoda in ESB, other Sith Lords etc). What little might remain we most likely know already - rebuilding the Republic, passing on what you have learned, Jedi Knighthood, moral & philosophical questions. That's probably everything that still exists regarding the ST.
    Last edited by Darth_Nub, Nov 16, 2012
  2. oierem Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2009
    star 3
    Agreed 100%.
    And some of those little elements that we sort of know of, ethereal as they are, were in a way used in PT. The "moral-philosophical" aspects of what a democracy is, what the Jedi Knighthood and the Republic should be... all that was explored in the PT, so I don't really expect the ST to deal with that.
  3. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    It was? How? When? By whom?

    This is where we're at:

    - GL has had vague thoughts and ideas for a ST for years. Exactly how vague we don't know.
    - GL, KK and MA have been developing a story based on GL's ideas, to put an extensive and detailed story treatment on paper.
    - Regardless of how vague GL's original ideas were, the story will be a part of his Saga, because A: It's called Episodes VII-IX and is clearly meant to extend the story and B: GL is there, writing the story with the others. No, we don't know exactly how involved he is, but he is there, collaborating.
    - This is not a case of me expressing what I want, so don't label me a wishful thinker. I'm expressing what is most likely the case. As I have explained elsewhere, I'm open to anything, as long as these movies feel relevant. The most likely scenario, though, is that Luke and co will be in EpVII, alive and kicking, to pass the torch, thereby making the ST a continuation of the Saga.

    In any case, this is a fruitless debate.





    "This bickering is pointless"
    /LM
    Last edited by Lars_Muul, Nov 16, 2012
    Julius Vernon likes this.
  4. Jango_Fett21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 3
    It is crystal clear from Kathy Kennedy and George Lucas' statements that we're getting the Sequel Trilogy that Lucas has had vague ideas about for years. It should be equally crystal clear - based on the context in which the Skywalker Saga label is used on the official site - that it is the new all-encompassing label for both the two existing trilogies as well as the Sequel Trilogy, replacing The Tragedy of Darth Vader.
    Julius Vernon likes this.
  5. Jango_Fett21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 3
    Oops. Double-post. Please ignore or delete.
    Last edited by Jango_Fett21, Nov 16, 2012
  6. Julius Vernon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    I believe that the Skywalker Saga refers to Episode I-IX based on what we've heard. Those who disagree are making good arguments nonetheless. As I've thought about it I guess I would like to see Episodes VII-IX focus on and close out the Skywalker Saga because I feel like there's unanswered questions and things that can be nicely closed off.

    If the Skywalker Sage includes Episode VII-IX then I think the need for the naming convention is because there are broad plans for expansion that will take place, ie new sagas beyond VII-IX, but it is possible that VII-IX already spin-off, but then why call them VII-IX as they were in the press release?
  7. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    Its starting to become real lame for me personally. Each character in the Palpatine-Fox saga has an image. By trying to show the older versions of these images is not something I support. Prior to Ep1 we had no image of what Anakin, Padme, Palpatine or a younger Obi Wan even looked like. Now we have those image in our minds. The 6 movie story is already 13hrs long. It had a grea conclusion, fans want that ending extended for another 6.5 hours of films? Well I don't. 13hrs is enough Star Wars for me. Which in my opinion is plenty long enough. The story in the 6 movies does not need to be added to & these new Disney movies should do their own thing & not try to leach off the other 6.
    oierem likes this.
  8. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    _I think the idea of trying to leach off of 1-6 is lazy & lacks creativity. We have images from the 6 that are pretty much the template for any future media ie comics, cartoons, video games, etc etc. I also find it annoying how some fans are so quick to honor Hamill, Ford & Fisher whilin in the process disrespecting Hayden, Portman & Mcgregor for their work. I will NEVER own a 1-9 saga set, its a really dumb idea to add on to 13hrs worth of cinematic story. The Disney team needs to start a fresh. I just hope they done alienate me from supporting what they do.
  9. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Extending the Saga in an entertaining, relevant way that changes the way we look at the previous trilogies would be anything but lazy. It would be highly creative. Doing something that has nothing to do with the previous trilogies yet calling it Episodes VII-IX, on the other hand, would definitely be leaching off of Episodes I-VI.
    Don't worry, though - There will be other kinds of Star Wars movies, so you'll get your fill.





    "It's inevitable"
    /LM
  10. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    It's a bit pointless, I suppose, given how little we have to go on, plus the fact that certain things will become quite apparent soon enough, once casting is announced & the publicity machine gets into gear.

    I don't think anything was definitively stated in the interview with GL & Kathy Kennedy - GL does refer to "seven to nine", plus the name 'Episode 7' is being thrown around as the working title of the next one - but whether or not that means Star Wars: Episodes VII-IX or just the seventh, eighth & ninth SW films isn't 100% clear.
    It's certainly being widely assumed that they're Star Wars: Episodes VII-IX (and fair enough, too), but I'm still not convinced that has to be the case, plus even if GL's outlines are, that could change with the new creative team.

    I might be wrong, of course, I'll definitely admit that, but this 'Skywalker Saga' label seems to suggest to me that it's a new title to distinguish Eps I-VI from these new ones, not a new title for the saga overall.

    I can see where the opposing views are coming from, though. None of us really have much to go on, so at this stage it's coming down to personal opinion and interpretation of what we do have.
  11. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Well, the press release does say "Star Wars Episode VII". In my mind, that leaves little room for misunderstandings.





    "Lies, deceit, creating mistrust are their ways now"
    /LM
  12. JoeyArnold Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    I don't think the original trilogy actors are too old. They can make six more films, I say.
  13. JoeyArnold Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    When Yoda said there is another, was he referring to other sith threats, or just to Leia?
  14. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Actually, you're quite right - the statement on SW.com says:

    Everything I'd read said 'Episode 7', i.e. not in Roman numerals, and referred to it as a working title.
    While it's possible it could change, yes, I imagine the title of the next one will be "Star Wars Episode VII".

    All other bets are off, though. We simply don't know anything else about this film, except that it's set in the SW universe (and you can ignore all those reports over the last couple of days about Carrie Fisher confirming at an autograph signing that she'll be in it - she later issued a statement that she was joking).
  15. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Oh, I believe that Carrie will be in it, but not because of that obviously sarcastic remark. It's still possible, though, that she won't. As I said, I'm open to anything. As we all should be at this point.





    "Impossible to see, the future is"
    /LM
  16. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    Before ESB was written, Lucas knew he wanted Luke to have a secret sister who was being trained as a Force-user on the other side of the galaxy at the same time Luke was on the bog planet. Luke would find out about her in ESB, and she might appear in a later episode. In Leigh Brackett's draft of the screenplay, Annikin (who at this point was not Darth Vader) appeared as a Force ghost/apparition (it's questionable how dead the "ghosts" are, as you'll see) and told Luke about her (italicized lines are what Lucas hand-wrote in the margins of Brackett's script):

    174 EXT BOG WORLD – DAY

    Threepio Artoo, standing disconsolately apart from Luke and Minch in the clearing by the pond, seems to be wondering the same thing. Minch has also retired to the background. Luke, with a new strength and authority in his voice and manner, calls out.

    LUKE
    Ben. Obi-Wan. By the Force, I call you.

    For a moment nothing happens, and Luke wonders if he has failed. Then, as before, Ben materializes in a ghostly fashion out of the mist.

    BEN
    And I am here.

    LUKE
    Ben…I’m so glad to see you! Are you real…or are you a ghost?

    BEN
    (laughs)
    I’m as real as you are, only my ‘reality’ has changed a little. There are no ghosts. Those are only names we put to things we can’t understand.

    LUKE
    Then Darth Vader didn’t kill you.

    BEN
    It was my time to move on.

    LUKE
    To move on where?

    BEN
    To a different part of the universe. It’s all one, if you know the way. Or rather, if you understand the laws that govern the way. Physical laws. One day you’ll understand, Luke you will. You’ll be able to glimpse, as I have, the beautiful symmetry of the perfection of this creation we all belong to… Luke, I’ve brought someone with me.

    Another half-ghostly form emerges from the mists; a tall fine-looking man who approaches Luke slowly, looking at him.

    BEN
    Your father.

    LUKE
    My father.

    Even with his new-found maturity, Luke finds this an awesome, not to say shattering, moment. They look at each other.

    SKYWALKER
    You’ve grown well, Luke. I’m proud of you.

    (Luke, not knowing what to say, says nothing)

    Proud, and afraid for you. You’re going into battle untried. Did your uncle ever speak to you about Nellith? your sister?

    LUKE
    Nellith? No. Who is she?

    SKYWALKER
    Your sister.


    LUKE
    My sister? I have a sister? But why didn’t Uncle Owen….

    SKYWALKER
    It was my request. When I saw the Empire closing in, I sent you both away for your own safety, far apart from each other.

    LUKE
    Where is she? What’s her name?

    SKYWALKER
    If I were to tell you, Darth Vader could get that information from your mind and use her as a hostage. Not yet, Luke. When it’s time…

    (he looks gravely at his son)

    Luke. Will you take, from me, the oath of a Jedi knight?

    If I'm not mistaken, the "Other" line doesn't exist in this version of the script, but it sure seems like this character of Nellith Skywalker would fit the bill for just such an Other. In the draft subsequent to this one, the conversation between Yoda and Ben as Luke leaves is a bit more like in the finished film, except Yoda says "we must search for another." Lucas has said he was trying to build tension with that line in the film, trying to telegraph to the audience that Luke might fail and if he does, the whole galaxy isn't lost. In the drafts after that one, the line is changed to its film version, "there is another," implying that Yoda is already aware of someone who could jump in when/if Luke fails. It's tempting to fill this in with details from the Brackett draft and early development, and may well have been in the back of Lucas's and Kasdan's heads as they rewrote the story. We don't know when Leia was made into Luke's sister, except that it obviously happened sometime after the Brackett draft of ESB and before the rough draft of ROTJ (if I remember correctly). So the Other mentioned by Yoda once the definitive "is" was brought back might be Leia (which doesn't make too much sense, considering she's already in even more danger than Luke at that point) or it might be some other, undefined at the time, character.

    This doesn't really answer your question, I guess, but it is the history of the Other as far as I can recall it.
  17. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Of course, there's always the theory that the Other is Anakin, but it doesn't hold up under close examination - Yoda & Obi-Wan want Luke to kill Vader/Anakin, not redeem him. As evident in his conversation with Luke in ROTJ, Obi-Wan had completely given up on Anakin/Vader, and there's nothing to indicate that Yoda believed any differently.

    And no, when the line was written & uttered in ESB, it wasn't Leia. GL all but admitted it:

    - George Lucas, The Annotated Screenplays

    -George Lucas, 2004 DVD commentary

    And as Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn pointed out above, it makes no sense for Yoda to consider that Leia could be another hope for the galaxy at that point - he's trying to prevent Luke to head into the dangerous situation Leia is actually stuck in, and considers Luke's immediate safety of greater importance than trying to rescue Leia & co.
  18. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    The Blu Ray say Star Wars The COMPLETE SAGA, so Ill stick with that Complete Saga.
  19. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    You do that. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy the expanding saga.





    "I'm gonna be the first one to see 'em all!"
    /LM
  20. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    LOL. Not anymore, objectively speaking.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.