Saga What is the Worst Twist from the Saga?

A companion poll to "The Best Twist from the Saga" thread

 

You've missed the most glaring one - Vader is Luke's father. Still the most unnecessary and damaging twist in my opinion.

 

Any time the supposed 'heroes' use deception and lying with no consequence rankles me but the reveal at the end of TPM took the cake for Cushy. It fell beyond flat and showed me once again there is precious *little* different between sides making the conflict seem empty and pointless.

 

You make a good point. I wasn't looking at it from that angle. I just used the same choices from my other poll.

I hope a Mod will be willing to add that. Since polls only allow 10 choices, I think the selection that should be dropped is: "Lando chooses to betray Han because Vader's troops had already entered Cloud City."

For a Mod to make such a change, do you know if I need to PM one or will this message suffice?

 

I have to be honest darth ladnar , I have no idea. Might be worthwhile yo PM them though. Guess if it is altered, you know there is already one vote there..

 

I think tagging Yak Face with your request would do the trick, darth ladnar. I think adding in the option for the Vader reveal is a good idea.

I chose the "Padme is the real queen" one because of NP's line delivery in that scene (I think the actual content of the "twist" is fine--just poorly executed).

 

I chose the Padme/Amidala option...
In a movie so not-what-I-was-hoping-for, that sub-plot was not interesting at all.....

But I am surprised....
All the other options were good or excellent twists...
Calling them a list of "worst" makes the entire saga a BIG trash....

Woooow!!!! Really?

Unexpected this is.... and unfortunate....

 

Sorry, those were all the plot twists I could think of, and even if someone likes them all, there can still be "the worst of the best"

 

Consider it done.

And christened...

 

Agreed...

 

Interesting topic, darth ladnar

For me the worst twist is definitely Leia being 'the other', Luke's sister. It just came across as too obviously decided last minute for my taste. Not only Leia is not portrayed consistently as a Force-user throughout the saga(no signs of it in ANH...she can sense Luke one time in ESB & she can sense he is alive at the end of ROTJ but other than that, no other use of Force-intuition or Force usage...only has Force 'enlightenments' when it's convenient for the plot), her 'always has known' concerning her relation to Luke is as unconvincing as it is fickle. The mention about Leia being adopted came abruptly in ROTJ when Luke asked Leia about 'her real mother', leaving us to believe they had a conversation about Leia's origins off screen. For the adoption revelation to have worked, it should have been told on-screen as soon as ANH(or ESB). As it wasn't, it just was smacked into our faces with Luke being her sibling. It really shows it was not planned.

Other than the execution of the twist, I was not happy with the pointlessness of this twist. I don't see that it served any purpose. Some will mention that Luke needed to be Leia's brother to end the love triangle, but it was essentially over anyway the moment Leia told Han she loved him before he Carbonite froze. And if she's going to have Force-sensitivity, give her either a role with her powers(however small or big), or give her an arc of non-acceptance of the Force or whatever. At least give her Force-sensitivity a reason for existing within her. I am fine with the idea of a non-force-sensitive Leia having a political role, like the one she had in the OT. As it was she was adopted into a political family and grew into an Alliance leader. Making her biologically the child of Padmé and Anakin changed nothing to the story. She could have still been used as emotional bait against Luke in his final battle with Vader. The dialogue just would have been changed to 'I see your feelings are stong, especially for...Organa. Leia Organa, that Rebellious brat. She will be made to sufferrrrr' or something of the kind. Luke would still have gone berserk and the ending would be the same.

I personally think 'the other' should have been introduced in ESB, if there was any need to have 'another' at all. Alternatively, 'the other' could have been a non-Force-sensitive who was key to the Rebel victory in some other, subtler way. Could have actually still been Leia as a biological Organa with a stronger influence in the Imperial overthrowing. I would not have minded her having a bigger role in ROTJ, I thought she started off as really important in ANH, then was minimized as the saga progressed.

 

I don't know if this is really a twist or a tragedy. The fact that Jar Jar Binks is the one who proposes to the senate the idea to grant emergency powers to the chancellor. Thus for creating "The Empire".

 

The change has been made! You can vote now!

 

Two things. As an immediate plot twist it is stunning. But it is like a slap in the face. It stuns, but then on reflection...it turns Obi-Wan into an out and out liar. It is the first signal that Lucas is writing this saga on the fly with little to no regard (or memory?) of what was already on celluloid. The attempt to 'rescue' Obi-Wan's character is clumsy....at best. "the truth...from a certain point of view.." Errr, no; you said "a young pupil of mine, named Darth Vader"

Secondly, and on further reflection, the impact of Luke throwing down his lightsabre in ROTJ; of his refusal to strike down Vader in anger would have been even more stunning a twist if it were not only not his father (and therefore definitely not because it was his father) but was in fact the murderer of his father. And, further to that idea, that Vader redeeming himself - as a former Jedi - would itself have more impact.

 

That second point.......... Love it!

 

Easily Leia being Luke's twin sister.

 

Great post. I completely agree with all of this.

 

Interesting - and while I agree to a certain extent, I think it would have been a bit too much for mainstream audiences to deal with. Sad, I know, but probably true. Such pure selflessness wouldn't work for the sort of audiences more satisfied by seeing a hero blow a villain's head off with a big gun and a one-liner.

However, I think the 'Father Vader' twist came about for far more complicated reasons anyway, as GL kept writing himself into a dead ends, usually by excluding or killing off the hero's father figure (a void he repeatedly seemed compelled to fill), along with making 'Annikin Starkiller/Skywalker' a bit of a redundant character when he began developing Darth Vader's backstory further with the Duel around mid-1977.

 

The comments above about the "down side" to the Vader reveal are very interesting.

Certainly it created a situation where GL had to do some awkward (and I would agree not entirely successful) ret-conning in terms of Obi-Wan's previous remarks, though I have to say I do actually like the "You'll find many of the truths we cling to..." line.

And I do also like some aspects of the idea of the alternate scenario in which Luke would refuse to kill his father's murderer. I can see the potential power of it.

Ultimately, though, if things had gone that way, I'd lose one of my all-time favorite saga moments, when redeemed Anakin says "You were right about me...tell your sister you were right" and then gives that little smile with the wonderful little crinkles around his eyes (which are radiating a tender and somewhat shy warmth). And I would hate to lose the "I've got to save you, father"--"You already...have" exchange

 

Palpatine controlling both sides of the war, it was so obvious he was Sidious. Sometimes I wish the Emperor was someone else.

 

These are some really good points. I think GL could've saved Obi-Wan much better than he did. Instead of "the certain point of view line," Obi-Wan should've said what makes the most sense: "Luke, you were young and impressionable. You knew nothing of the Force, let alone the dark side. If I had told you that Vader was your father, it was likely that you would have left me and joined him, and now you'd be his dark side apprentice. To prevent that, I couldn't reveal the truth to you. You weren't ready." I think there is some line that sort of hints at what I'm saying, but I think if Obi had said this, then it would've worked much better.

I also like your idea of Luke sparing his father's killer, but that would've required more back story about the killer of Luke's dad. Consider how it is in the film. Luke immediately has a reason to believe that GL's Vader has good in him. He's his dad. It's actually a very naive belief. He simply believes deep down that his father can't be evil, even though he has virtually no reason to think so, and I think that's why Obi, Yoda, and even Vader are so skeptical of Luke. That father-son connection makes it easily understood why Luke wants to believe that there's good in Vader, but at the same time, it makes it seem unlikely that Luke's hopes will be fulfilled because it's such a naive belief. That creates great dramatic tension. Also, as Pensivia pointed out, we'd lose the poignant father-son moments at the end of ROTJ. Those were great.

If we take the other scenario -- that Luke refuses to kill his father's killer -- it would be unclear why Luke is so convinced that there's good in that guy. He's not Luke's long lost dad, but just some guy -- so why would Luke have a reason to think he's redeemable? I don't think this is an insurmountable obstacle, though. It would probably require Luke learning a great deal about the history of his father's killer -- that he was originally a good guy, that he was tricked into being a Sith or that he became a Sith for what he thought was a noble reason. Luke's quest to find this knowledge might have provided good material for a film in between TESB and ROTJ. He could've gone to ancient Jedi and Sith ruins to learn that stuff.

In a way, I also agree with what Only One and Yak Face say about Vader's revelation being the beginning of the end of Star Wars, or at least the Saga, as that revelation ended Star Wars more episodic structure. I don't mean that in bad way as I think they do, but that revelation gave the OT its structure and the Saga its structure. Luke's attempt to save his father and Vader's fall became the heart and emotional center of the respective trilogies. The OT became the story of Luke having to confront Palpatine/Vader and his wanting to redeem his father, and the overall story arc of the Saga was the Fall and Rise of Vader. Vader being Luke's father also intertwined with most of the other main story arcs. Turning Vader good required Palpatine to be there since Palpatine's torturing of Luke is what turns Vader, and that basically meant that the storyline of "Palpatine vs. Vader" and the storyline of "Palpatine as creator/leader of the Empire" would be resolved at that time also. When Vader returns to the light side, it resolves the father/son storyline, the Palpatine/Anakin storyline, and gets rid of Palpatine as the Empire's mastermind/top leader. So, with those story lines concluded, that really feels like THE END of the Saga, hence the celebrations at the end of the film.

On the other hand, if Vader wasn't made into Luke's father, then all the other parts of the story wouldn't have been so inextricably intertwined, and Star Wars could've proceeded in a more episodic fashion. Luke resolving his issues with his father's killer would've just been one story arc that was resolved along the way. It wouldn't have brought the PT and OT story lines to a close so conclusively. The conclusive ending of ROTJ is also what makes connecting Ep. 7 to the original Saga so difficult. In fact, from Ep. 7 on, Star Wars may return back to a more episodic form (which may be cool in that we're guaranteed manyf more films or which may be awful because Disney won't know when to quit -- ahem, the Star Trek films... Oh please, Disney, don't milk Star Wars for all its worth until it falls into irrelevancy!)

 

Because after all wars and battles otherwise are heartfelt and noble beyond compare? Just ask the winning side!

The point is that Sidious was playing both sides and the real result was getting himself in as the Chancellor so that he could do the same kind of thing on a whole other level to become the Emperor.

 

Being honorable and noble got Eddard Stark from A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones killed.

 

The appearance of The Emperor as Vader's master rather than just his boss was also a fairly significant twist I thought. It was another step in the direction of SW becoming a cosmic battle between Jedi and Sith rather than a war between Rebellion and Empire with a spiritual element involved.

 

Personally, I think it all hinges on the reaction of the Jedi, and Anakin (and heck, Jar Jar, too).


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I'd say the weakest listed in the original poll is Vader letting the Falcon go. Leia twigs to it immediately, while Han is ignorantly cocky and dismisses her outright, and neither actually seems to care for the consequences of it being true. The idea they're being tracked just doesn't seem to be that important, basically -- it's used more to join the Empire and Rebels sub-plots together, induce a bit of tension, and bring us the finale.

Compounding matters, I think it's a little confusing how the Falcon doesn't appear to actually be in hyperspace when it's meant to be, and the slightly puzzling (if economical) decision to have Han present at the briefing scene and then allowed to leave. I mean, even with the payment he takes with him, aren't the Rebels even remotely concerned that he might quickly run back to the Empire and sell them out? What if he's actually a mole? After all, he wasn't bothered about the Empire tracking the Falcon ("Not this ship, sister"), was he?

But it's only one twist, which still has its place (and I'm glad there is a twist there -- even if it's flat or contrived), and it doesn't break the movie or anything. Plus, it keeps Leia one step ahead of Han in the whole espionage/military-tactics-of-the-Empire, I suppose. Even if Han has to seem a little dumb in comparison.


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What I get less of is the grousing over some of the other twists -- especially the main twist of Vader being Luke's father (well, technically, he isn't -- Anakin is).

With that twist, there is a slightly selfish, family link (kin bias), though that is pretty concordant, in my view, with Star Wars being a saga -- that is, a story spanning multiple generations, involving the same family.

I'll add that, in coming to terms with his own heritage, Luke is also coming to terms, in a greater symbolic sense, with the darkness within himself. By having Vader (or Anakin) be his "father", the capacity for evil is that much closer to him. He has to tear off that coat of innocence when he is confronted with the idea that his own father was not the noble Jedi protector he was led to believe. Implications arise from this: authority figures lie to us and withhold valuable information, and if we're to understand our place in the social order, let alone transform it, we must enlarge our conception of history: of past, present, and future. We must see ourselves as drops in a bigger ocean. And come to recognize the fundamental interconnectedness and closeness of all things.

As the moment when the scales really fall from the hero's eyes, inspiring him to be a better person, I might contend that the twist in the fifth installment stands as the saga's greatest twist, and greatest mythic theme. It's all the more poetic that it happens (in a "story" viewing order) five films in. We have five digits. Five main characters in the first installment, five duels in the third (and "last"). Hands getting cut off, termination points. It's a genuine revelation because it opens the door to uncharted territory: a real "sixth" level of consciousness. It's a paradigm-breaker, a real psychic blow. Everything is suddenly different.

That and, in an Oedipal/Freudian sense, the struggle with one's father, or his darker aspects, is like struggling with a murderer, a tyrant, an oppressor. Perhaps there is a deep-seated revulsion to the idea, actually, that Luke makes a kind of peace with his father in the end. He proves his superiority in removing a hand in "payback" to the father doing it to him, but he doesn't necessarily surpass the father, let alone seek to dominate him. He positions himself as a cosmological equal: "I am a Jedi like my father before me." This sort of making-peace-with-the-father is something I struggle with in my own life, and not something I see an easy way to fully resolve. Full resolution may, in fact, be an absurdity. But the idea is mythically implanted in Star Wars nonetheless. It takes a certain strength and peace within, I think, to really emulate Luke's compassion.

But as ROTJ also outlines (whether "justifying" the twist of the former movie or intelligently adumbrating something true of Star Wars, art, and life as a whole -- perhaps this is the line, in fact, when the series truly grew up)................. many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point-of-view. We take from these movies what we want (or can), and leave the rest.