CT What is wrong with Hayden as Anakin in the end scene of Return of the Jedi

Why is it people with Anakin avatars who always argue against Shaw in ROTJ? Even if Anakin's your favorite character, do you really need that one pretty badly done shot? You've got three movies with Anakin in a main role plus a five season spanning tv-series. What do Shaw fans have? Oh yes, two scenes and now only one.

 

Again, you miss the forest through the trees. You're projecting your feelings on a fictional character and assuming that would be the only response he would have. There is no reason to assume that Luke would have some sort of disconnect because his father was a young man.

It isn't about what we the fans need. It is and always what Lucas wanted and when he sat down to work on the PT, at a certain point, he decided that he wanted to take it further back with whoever he would cast as the older Anakin. Which takes us to this point...

The reason Lucas didn't is two fold.

1. Lucas didn't want to have this scene.Howard Kazanjian suggested it late in the production and Lucas wound up agreeing with him. As far as Lucas was concerned originally, he shouldn't have even been a ghost. But he got to thinking due to Kazanjian bringing up as a way to punch up the ending and this in turn gave more closure, alongside the funeral pyre.

2. Lucas would still have to replace the actor with Hayden, since he wasn't going to do the PT. Lucas put more time into thinking about Force ghosts with the PT, which is why he came up with the younger Anakin.

Given what Lucas said, Anakin was dead for all intents and purposes. But that which dies can be reborn and all it takes is a spark to reignite that flame.

 

Being a fan of Shaw or Hayden has no reason to be why either should be in. It seems the only argument for Shaw seems to be that he has more of a fatherly apperance and thats it. But in reality you can be a father figure in your 20's. Hayden although works for a lot of reasons. Hes the young jedi knight Luke imagined him to be and wanted to become a jedi just like him. It old ben and yoda seeing thier old friend the way they rememberd him after he sold his soul. And obviously Hayden helps connect the saga more which is a plus to me and the many other fans who grew up with the Prequels in the current gen. When Luke removes Vaders helmet he isnt suppose to be seeing Shaw. Its a older burnt up Hayden. While Anakin is the only young one at the end of rotj thats because Luke is seeing them the way he envisions them too look like. And lets be honest. Would anybody feel better if they made Obiwan and Yoda younger? No they would still complain. But unless Lucas reads a few online forums (doubt it) he doesent hear the complaints.

 

We're all doing that though. We're looking at what's going on and putting ourselves in the position of the character. You may not interpret it this way, but surely you can see that it's conceivable that this character would feel less connected to a completely unfamiliar figure, than to the one that he was talking to face to face moments earlier.

 

People arguing for Hayden are not arguing against Shaw. One does not automatically equal the other. I was fine with him in the OT. I did not need Hayden to appear there. However, he did, and Shaw was replaced in that scene. It happened, and viewers are just left to react. The only one against Shaw in ROTJ was apparently Lucas.

All I'm arguing against is that Hayden somehow ruins the scene by breaking non-existent rules of ghosting.

 

Well, he ruins the scene for me because Hayden's face is the one I associate with being a whiny ******* killer, I find that guy disgusting. If you don't like the prequel Anakin, you're screwed.

Oh, and many people don't like Anakin, I know even casual fans who detest him. I even know someone for whom he is one of the most hated characters in cinema, and this person is not a hardcore Star Wars fan.

 

Moc Yak, Luke does indeed talk to Vader at the end of rotj. But Luke does not see Shaw when he removes the mask but a monster who doesnt look like Shaw or Hayden. Luke does see Anakin a little later and it is the Anakin he was just talking to. Just the way Luke always envisoned the way his father look liked. He just doesent look like the monster he became when he got burned at Mustafar.

 

Solution: Burned old Jake loyd with an evil smile. Is everybody happy now? And the ghost younglings: "You killed us when we were children....."

 

At least that would be hilarious.

 

No, because I don't think in those terms. I view familiar connections as the person as a whole, and not how I've known them for my whole life. My grandmother had looked her age by the time I was old enough to comprehend the world around me, but seeing photos of her from her younger years doesn't take away the feeling of familiarity due to the youthful appearance she had.

There is no reason to assume that Luke would feel anything less due to age. None whatsoever.

 

Darth Perva maybe you should just tell youre friend to chill lmao. Anakin in the beginning of ROTS acts wiser than even Obi wan. Hes not even whiny in ROTS but confused and searching for power. And him being a killer...you do realize this is Darth Vader. But that just makes the ending of ROTJ even better because we get to see the Anakin who we seen do all these things turn back and get redeemed. Its perfect. There is truly good still left in Anakin.

 

This thread is overkilled.

Seriously? Is this an intelligent answer? Is that your only argument, simply because you hate the character?

When you'll be able to give an enlightened argument, I'll take them seriously. But for now, I have yet to see some kind of intelligent discussion here. The only thing I see here is moaning: "I don't like that!", "I don't like this!","I hate Hayden!" "I hate his smile!", "I hate his creepy look!","Lucas is a moron by making this change!", etc...

How about you behave as adults?

The only person I've seen so far providing some interesting comments here is darth-sinister with a lot of information from different sources.

 

You may not and fair enough. But can't you see that someone else might?

 

I have already given several objective reasons, the most notable being that first time viewers wouldn't recognize Anakin and be disconnected from the movie. I've yet to see a valid counterpoint to that.

As for Anakin being a disagreeable character, you may disagree, but you just have to open your eyes to realize that many people feel about him that way. If you have your character act in an unsympathetic fashion and then proceed to force him into an iconic scene, of course a lot of people will be unhappy.

I already did, but this particular friend isn't good at chilling.

Oh yes, I am sure there's lots of good in Anakin when he isn't currently slaughtering some helpless Tusken kids. I'm sure he helps lots of old ladies cross the sidewalk, this swell dude.

 

I agree with you Sw saga fan. No matter how much Hayden makes sense some will act like he doesent. Simply because they dont like...Hayden. Its not like he gets a line at the end or you have to watch the PT to know who he is.

 

The expression on Hayden Christensen's face is pretty vacant. You can tell he is not really looking at Luke like Shaw did. And how could he? Lucas didn't even give him an opportunity to give his actual acting for the scene, he used stock footage.

 

anakinfan I am talkin during tcw and the beginning of rots. Anakin pre manipulated. Obiwan and the Palpatine tell him how much wiser he has become. And Darth Perva about the slaughtering well I guess he is the man who becomes Darth Vadar.

 

Well, you were saying something about "good" in prequel Anakin. There's not much good to be seen in AOTC and ROTS, it is buried beneath all the bad, for many people he simply doesn't work as a sympathetic protagonist, far less someone who is supposed to symbolise "the Good" before the fall. If you don't see the good in him, how's the Shaw-Hayden switch ever supposed to work for you? It doesn't.

I hope this gets acknowledged by those for whom it did work.

We're not just a handful of people. We're the reason why the OT is sitting at 3,5 stars at Amazon, not at five stars like this original trilogy would deserve.

Before anyone starts to marginalize the critics of the changes again.

 

Because it doesn't matter. People know now and will forever know that there are nine films. And more and more people will start with TPM and go all the way through Episode IX, so it doesn't matter. Not to mention it isn't like the PT doesn't exist and someone won't sit down and watch them.

Yeah, well, Shaw wasn't even looking at Hamill either. He didn't even know that he was going to appear in the film that way, until he saw it. He assumed he was dressing up for publicity photos, or an action figure.

 

Its not hard to tell apart the bad guys from the good guys in SW. I could easily tell by watching aotc and the beginning of rots that Anakin is a good guy. Hes a jedi who has to show some dark side. We know where hes going. And about Anakin being whiny. Isnt he the father to the whiny farm boy in the OT? But I bet everyone loves all of his performance and lines.

 

There's a difference between acting wiser as DuckHunt mentioned, and be wiser than someone else....

Same remark when you told me:

 

I have the perfect version thought up: *Luke looks at where Anakin is supposed to be* "Ben where's my father?"
Obi-wan: "He spent the first nine years of his life being really nice,spent the next decade being a nice guy who did horrible things, then spent 20 years slaughtering his friends,children and helping destroy planets. He aint invited to this party. Im going to get master Qui-gon. Hi master this is your grand-padawan Luke!"
Qui-gon:"Please tell me this one isn't evil....."