CT What is wrong with Hayden as Anakin in the end scene of Return of the Jedi

What if we had a properly aged 46 year old Hayden?

 

If we absolutely must have Hayden, then I'd certainly prefer this.

 

anakinfansince1983 Ha ha lol. I could see that.
MOC Yak Face Same.

 

Lucas didn't want to do that.

For the shot in which Luke Skywalker sees his father appear as a spirit in the company of Yoda and Obi-Wan, Hayden Christensen has been inserted in place of Sebastian Shaw. Following a brief discussion, Lucas confirms that he does not want to age Christensen, explaining that Anakin has reverted to who he was when he went over to the dark side."

--The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith.

 

Look, I just told you that some people find him despicable, no handwringing and "but he's supposed to be good" is going to change that view. You can tell the critics a billion times how you think the scene is fine and it won't change their opinion one bit.

Lucas failed to make Anakin into a well-loved character and then he double-failed by forcing this divisive character into an iconic, touching scene.

 

He's not suppose to be completely good though. Some people complain that Anakin turnt evil too quickly. The Tusken slaughter scenes purpose is well. Without it they would complain he just became evil out of nowhere in rots. Idk why you find him despicable even if Lucas had left Shaw hes still the same Anakin/Vader who has done all that stuff.

 

He's not just "not good", he is a mass murderer.

Vader is rotten evil but he has a lot of charisma, he is one of those villains. I am not sure what this has to do with Hayden-Anakin though, whose job it was to represent "the good before the fall".

 

He is plenty good and the audience gets to see that. My relatives and when I ask people at my HS do they like SW they always say they like the one with the little boy racing in it. lol. Hes all good in tpm, all of aotc. (except the slaughtering but that scene has purpose) And during the clone wars. (helping win many battles the jedi thought were lost) And hes good in rots right up until he cuts off Maces arm. George did great showing this character was good while also showing were he was going at the same time.

 

I'm not talking about Jake Lloyd Anakin because he's not the Anakin in ROTJ. I think I already said that I would be more okay with him in the scene than I am with Haydenkin (though I like the original scene best of all).

ROTS Anakin is post Tusken-massacre Anakin, he's the same guy.

TCW Anakin is a lot better, but he's a different character. They've remodelled the PT-character to make him more likeable. It's like a new iteration of the Joker, same foundation but vastly different executions.

 

It's my understanding that Hayden said he was filmed without his knowledge. Now, if Lucas had told him what he needed to do and filmed him for that purpose, then I think it would have been fine. The last wide shot in which he appears to be gazing proudly at Luke and Leia is good, but the closer shot before that in which he is awkwardly staring or leering is not right.

Lucas didn't even tell Sebastian Shaw what he was doing when he filmed the Force ghost scene originally. He dressed him in Jedi robes, told him to smile and look happy, and shot him...with a camera. Shaw assumed that this was only for publicity. Lucas and Marquand were there when Mark Hamill and Shaw filmed the unmasking scene, one of the best scenes in all of Star Wars. Now, if Lucas had told Marquand what he was intending or if he had at least been honest with Shaw, maybe Shaw would have done it differently. He did a great job. But anyway, you see my point that Lucas didn't even tell Hayden Christensen about his intentions. This was bizarre and manipulative, and I defend Lucas regarding some of his choices, but I won't regarding this one.

 

Jake Anakin, Hayden Anakin, Shaw Anakin, TCW Anakin they are all the same people. Shaw Anakin is still the same Anakin that did terrible things. Just older. Maybe you like having Shaw Anakin instead of Hayden Anakin because you think of them as different people Perva? Well there not. Shaw murdered the tuskens.And yes Satele, Lucas shot Shaw and Hayden without either of them knowing for what. Neither look at Luke so...

 

That would have shown some effort. Why do that when you can half-ass it with a random bit of footage that Hayden didn't even know was going to be shoved in the film?

 

We dont 46 year old Hayden. Force ghosts dont even have bodies. Lukes envisioning as what he sees them as. Luke sees Obiwan and Yoda older because that is the way he knows them to look like. Hes see Hayden because he always envisioned his father as a young JEDI knight. Which Shaw is never shown to be. Luke never sees Shaw but instead sees an old burnt up Anakin who looks like neither of them. And again NEITHER knew they were gonna be in the movie they were both just inserted without knowing. NEITHER of them are looking at Luke.

 

So Luke envisioned his father to look exactly like Hayden Christensen, even though he'd never met him? That's quite a coincidence don't you think? Or maybe it was the force...

 

Well they are FORCE ghosts. And the movie seems to take place somewhere far far away. So you might be on to something.

 

Yes they are different, Shaw is the Anakin who lived as Darth Vader for two decades and Anakin is the Anakin who only lived through the prequels. Decades of life experience separate them.

Yes Shaw murdered the Tusken back in the day but he came to regret that, regret all the evil he has committed, and redeems himself by saving his son at the cost of his own life. After all he went through, including decades of being Darth Vader, he has finally become another person, a decent person who truly wants to do good.

 

This presumes that Lucas was ever going for a well-loved character in the vein of Luke. Based on all his statements, he wasn't really heading in that direction. He even calls Anakin a pathetic character.

There's something that needs to be said, no matter who wrote and directed the PT, there was no way that Anakin was ever going to be squeaky clean good. And again, I don't think that Lucas ever intended that. We're talking about two characters that were merged into one, which meant that we were going to see both the good and the bad in Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader. He could never be one over the other. But what Lucas could do was show us both the good and bad, so that we could see how one could fall and the circumstances surrounding his fall.

This wasn't about effort. Lucas had already decided to do this with a young Anakin and not put him in make-up. And as noted, Shaw also did the same thing under Marquand.

 

This sums it up perfectly for me. It was an unnecessary and quite frankly insulting change that added nothing and took away a lot from that scene.

 

as one who cannot really defend the change, I much prefer Shaw in every way possible. I do have to niggle at one thing though

"it's disrespectful to Shaw"

I agree, but how many people would say "it's insulting to Clive Revill" to change the Emperor to McDiarmid? if those who cry "it's not the same thing" my question is why not?

sorry if this is the wrong place to discuss this

 

It may be to some, mate, I'd say it'd depend which performer we saw first as the Emperor in some cases. I started with Ian so I find the Clive ESB very odd. It's down to what reads true for the individual I think.

 

I suppose you could also argue we didn't actually see Clive, just heard his voice,
but then you'd get into the Boba Fett and the whole changing his voice argument, then it will all end up being circular. So with that in mind, my question probably wasn't a good one.

 

I guess everybodys got an opinion. And thats fine. I just feel more for Anakin when hes redeemed and actually looks like the Anakin from the pt and tcw.