CT What is wrong with Hayden as Anakin in the end scene of Return of the Jedi

but he's redeemed when he saved his son from painful torturous death.

The Anakin you prefer had already murdered children (tuskens at least) had an obsession with a certain senator who he would murder innocents for, and had a rather selfish attitude to life in general.

 

And he has learned from the past. I wouldn't mind them doing older Hayden. Its been 10 years since rots so hes got to look older now.

 

That's why Lucas didn't compromise on Anakin's character. There was no way to depict a character who was going to become such an evil monster, while still making him completely likeable. And before you say TCW did it, the show had a lot of hours to fill and three years to cover. Lucas only had three films and even if Anakin wasn't a kid in TPM, a lot of what made him what he was in AOTC would be in TPM. It's the same way that Luke was depicted as good right from the start and kept on that path, even with a few hints that he could fall in ROTJ. Lucas needed to show that balance between good man and greedy monster.

Though when Lucas calls him pathetic, he's does so once he's evil. He doesn't refer to him as such in AOTC, or at the start of ROTS.

 

Well, the Anakin you prefer has blown up planets, tortured his daughter, cut off his son's hand, froze a man in carbonite, killed an entire rebel squadron in a space battle, held an entire city hostage, murders his own officers, continually serves the man he knows has ruined his life and is the main cause of all the destruction and chaos that has plagued the galaxy since TPM, and has total contempt for all life in general.

Both versions of Anakin is just as evil as the other but it doesn't mean that neither version doesn't deserve to be seen as a force ghost at the end of ROTJ.

 

Both Shaw's and Hayden's Anakin had done very evil things yes but only Shaw's Anakin had seen that what he did was wrong. Shaw's Anakin had rejected his hate and renounced the Dark Side and tried to atone for his evil.
Shaw's Anakin was evil no more while Hayden's Anakin had now fully embraced evil.
Shaw is an evil turned good again Anakin while Hayden is a good turned evil Anakin.
Plus as I've said before, Shaw represents the full character arc of Anakin Skywalker.
The good man he was, his Vader years and that he turned back again and died a good man.
Hayden is just the first half.

@darth-sinister

There clearly wasn't much effort. It was about doing something as cheaply as possible.

Or Lucas went with a young Anakin just because it was cheaper and quicker.
Putting Hayden in makeup would have taken more time, cost more money and he would have to actually tell Hayden about it. What if Hayden said no?
Or Hayden might have wanted to that irritating "acting" thing and Lucas didn't want to bother with that.

Not an excuse, doing something cheaply or sloppily doesn't become less cheap and sloppy simply because you have done that once before.
And at least Shaw was paid to be in the film. Was Hayden paid? I would guess no since he didn't even know about it.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

They didn't remodelled him. That may be only your perception.

If we follow your logic, then Anakin's character was also remodelled in Episode III. One of the purposes of The Clone Wars series was to show how Anakin went from a undisciplined teenager in Episode II to a more self-controlled and wiser Jedi in Episode III. George Lucas stated that the character of Ahsoka Tano in TCW was developed for the series as a means of illustrating how Anakin Skywalker develops between those two Episodes. But even in this series, in case you haven't watched TCW, he does some questionable things as he did in Episode II, and not just in one episode of the series.

Besides, what were you all expecting from Anakin in the prequels? You were expecting him to be evil since the very beginning? A young kid having already Sith powers since he was born, or someone like an evil sage-scientist without any emotions?

We learn that he was once a good person in the OT and that he was once a Jedi. Yoda taught Luke to control his agressive emotions, anger, and fear in ROTJ and TESB in order to avoid the Dark Side. With that hint, if Luke's father has fallen to Dark Side, then the fact that he was once a Jedi before becomin a Sith certainly means that he was unable to control his fears and agressive emotions.

That's why he desobeyed the Jedi council's orders, went to rescue his mother and then massacred the Tusken after finding her dead. And that is why he chose the Dark Side because of his fear for his wife. Luke was also to the point to fall to the Dark Side when Vader threatened his sister in ROTJ and let his anger and fear taking over it. The only difference between Luke and Anakin is that Luke remembered at the very last moment Yoda's teachings, while Anakin completely ignored it.

And you all cry by saying that George Lucas is a foul?

 

If he should represent "the good before the fall", would it have made more sense if he was 100% good if he should become evil later?

If you take a look at the video below on the definition of the Tragic Hero by Aristotle, Anakin wasn't supposed to be completely good, nor completely bad. He was not supposed to be like Superman or whathever you wanted him to be... He was having the basic human flaws, as everyone does, even if he was talented and has great potential among other individuals. But it is his human faults (or flaws: his unability to control his emotions, his anger and his fears) ultimately which are the cause of his fall.

Haven't we, in the real world, all went angry, became mad once, or made some questionnable things in our real life? I suppose nobody will say yes here since we are all a little bit coward in our nature. That's what we are, humans!

 

Only when it came to the cut and paste job and that was to save money on making a set of Jedi robes to fit Hayden's frame. The idea to not age him wasn't about money.

Hayden was under contract. He would have to put on the makeup due to that and since he put on makeup when Anakin was burnt, he wasn't against makeup at all. Why is it hard to believe that he had an actual story reason?

Well, since he's never complained, I'd say it wasn't an issue.

 

I don't think I have ever slaughtered children or even considered doing it, no.

 

There's no Shaw's Anakin and Hayden's Anakin. There's only Anakin. And Anakin's ghost is and always was meant to represent Anakin as he once was. Since the PT, Shaw no longer accurately represents how he looked like and as such it was changed accordingly.

There was effort to show what he wanted. Cheap or expensive is irrelevant as long as it's effective and done well.

What exactly was sloppy?

Relevancy? That's just grasping at straws.

 

If you think that I was aiming at you, you're completely mistaking since that when I saying "we", I mean people in general.

And if you try to be serious, well it's not working...

Besides, you would be surprised that many studies have demonstrated, in our real world, that more than 65% of the individual could become executioners. The most notorious one is Stanley Milgram's study who is an American social psychologist. His results can give shivers.

 

Hayden's Anakin has seen that what he did was wrong too when we see him shedding a tear on Mustafar. However, he couldn't renounce the dark side because Padme and Obi-wan were both horrified and ashamed at what he's done. Neither one of them could appeal to his good side like Luke can because the fact that Obi-wan showed himself inside the ship caused Anakin to attack them both. As for Shaw's Anakin, he may have turned good again but he's still scarred and deformed by the dark side. There's no way that Anakin's ghost could look like Shaw not only because of that but also that he's never seen himself outside of the helmet for 2 decades on the count that he hated how hideous he looked and that he didn't want to be seen as Anakin anymore.

Alexrd is right, there is only one Anakin and he could only remember the man he used to be before his horrible disfigurement which is Hayden.

 

There are many movies and books made that aren't specifically meant for entertainment only. I can give you the names of many authors and producers that have written, or produced, books, or movies, that push the reader, or spectator, to think and learn instead of being entertained in the first place. Many of these books and movies that you might consider as "boring" are studied in class or in school today and are taken seriously.

Besides, the search of only entertainment in movies and books today, instead of discussing subject and ideas that really matter, reminds me about something that Eleanor Roosevelt, the spouse of former U.S. president Franklin Roosevelt, said (but don't take as an offense here):

"Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, and small minds talk about people."

 

The point is that it is easy to understand why Anakin would make the choices that he made. The question you have to ask yourself is, "How far would you go to save someone you love?" You can say that you wouldn't do it, but someone else might be tempted to do so.

 

Nope, I'm being very serious here.

I was in a private school and there was a lot of book that I had to read for my classes in literature and I found them pretty boring when I was a teenager. Now that I'm an adult, I think back to those books. And now that I see the world differently than when I was a kid, there is a lot of things said in those books that were true. It has allowed me to grow and be more realistic towards the world while I still try to be optimistic about life.

 

Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, and small minds talk about people."
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not to go off topic here, but is she the one who wanted the president to be a benevolent dictator?

but to keep on topic:

PMT: to quote Samuel Vimes "Both Shaw's and Hayden's Anakin had done very evil things yes but only Shaw's Anakin had seen that what he did was wrong. Shaw's Anakin had rejected his hate and renounced the Dark Side and tried to atone for his evil."

 

There is no Shaw or Hayden Anakin. Only Anakin. And the Anakin in Aotc and Rots is played by Hayden. When you make a saga about a fall and redemption wouldnt it make sense to show the real Anakin, the one who fell in the first place get redeemed? Not some random? Shaw worked before the PT but not now.

 

Um ROTJ Anakin?

 

Anakin is portrayed as Hayden in all the movies now, anakinfan. And Force Smuggler im pretty sure rotj Anakin is hayden too now as it should be.

 

Jake Lloyd Anakin in TPM?
You consider ROTJ Vader/Anakin on the 2nd DS as Hayden even though he is Shaw there?

 

Alright but grown up Jedi Anakin is Hayden. What 2nd DS?