CT What is wrong with Hayden as Anakin in the end scene of Return of the Jedi

The change doesn't bother me. Both versions get the point across rather well, but Hayden's addition makes sense if they want him to re-appear as a ghost in the ST.

 

No, it isn't. Shaw's ghost was how Anakin was supposed to be as a Jedi Knight. After the prequels, we all know how Anakin was as a Jedi Knight, so his appearance was changed accordingly.

What kind of argument is that? There's nothing disrespectful against an actor when his footage is not used, and that applies to every movie. There's no obligation or guarantee that it will be used for the final product. Actors know that, that's why you don't see any of them crying when their footage is not used. So let's stop pretending to know Sebastian's feelings about how the person who paid him uses the footage he recorded.

Not to mention the fact that he's still in the movie, on a much more relevant scene.

 

Easy. Old fans like me don't like to remember how AOTC and ROTS are horrible movies, and we don't wan't any link to the OT. Hayden it is a terrible Anakin, his acting, the directing and the scrip that it was gave to him help to make even worse his presence. Simple as that.

 

Seeing Hayden at the end of RotJ reminds me of all the atrocities Anakin committed. As a result, images of a twisted and merciless being flood my mentality. This makes it extremely difficult for me to forgive his character, and works against the whole 'redemption' concept.

 

Hate to say i but it was a necessary change.I spent years as a kid wondering who the old guy beside obi-wan actually WAS.At least if a kid watches episodea 1-6 they'll actually know who hayden is.

 

The scene worked just fine for decades. We saw Shaw's face when Luke took off Vader's helmet, so we knew who that force ghost dude is.

 

I have nothing against Shaw. Either one is fine though if I had to choose, I like Hayden there better.

It shows he has been forgiven by the Force and given a second chance.

Also they say when you die and go to Heaven you're young again and not suffering or in any pain

 

OOTS had an interesting take on the afterlife. Self-image plays a big part in one's new appearance. If you've "been a grumpy old man, mentally, all your life, your soul appears as a grumpy old man - if you've been "a teenager at heart" - your soul appears as a teenager.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0494.html

 

The point is that it is who Anakin was and not what he had become. Seeing him as a younger man, whole and hale, takes us back to the good man that he was that Lucas was going for. That the old man was still part of the dark side as much as the burnt shell of a man was. Obi-wan and Yoda remain as is because they didn't turn to the dark side and that is their identity when they died.

 

In addition to me not being a fan of Hayden at all, the change was totally unnecessary since, in my opinion, Anakin was brought back to the light side at his ripe old age right there on the Death Star. You can argue all you want, but it certainly made total sense to me in the originals with Shaw standing there at the end.

 

Yes, old, deformed and amputated. But that was never how he appeared as a ghost.

 

You think it was a mistake in the original that he had all his limbs in the form of an apparition?

 

This is basically the crux of the issue. The Sebastian Shaw ghost presents an image of a man who never existed--a man who never suffered injuries to his body or soul, and who lived to the end of his days as a kind old saint of a man. But that never happened. It's a lie.

Instead of embracking a lie, Anakin made a choice to remember the man he used to be. The man who once actually existed, and who still existed deep inside of him. Christensen's Anakin isn't a lie. There is still a scar over his eye. It's the image of a man who took terrible revenge on the Tusken Raiders, and who lost a piece of himself to Count Dooku on Geonosis. He hasn't been miraculously healed of all his injuries and absolved of all his sins, as Shaw's ghost seems to have been. The point is that Anakin has made the choice to accept himself as a good-yet-flawed human being, rather than futilely strive for the squeaky-clean image of mechanical perfection represented by his Darth Vader persona.

Anakin never got to grow into a content old man, because he allowed himself to be overtaken by Darth Vader when he was young. And he still doesn't get to. But he does get to say, "I reject Darth Vader. I can choose to be the man I was two decades ago, before I decided to give up totally. I can't change the past, but I can remember it." And when Luke looks at Anakin's ghost, he isn't looking at a father. His father died on the Death Star, and he burned his body to ashes. At the end of Return of the Jedi, Luke is looking into a mirror. He's seeing his father as a reflection of himself, and approaching him on equal terms for the first time. That's what the movies are all about. Luke has grown up. It's his job to continue where Anakin left off in Episode III, this time avoiding making the same mistakes he did.

 

No. I'm just refuting your argument.

 

or it faded away - depending on which newcanon source you believe

 

Why does Anakin get to have all his scars and injuries miraculously healed, as if he never made any mistakes in his life? Why does his ghost get to live out an alternate history where he never got burned and never got put into a mechanical suit? All those things happened, and Anakin's sacrifice was never about denying that. It was about choosing to be his old self again going forward. His old self, who sinned and was scarred, but who still wanted to be good.

Oh, indeed. I was always of the opinion that it doesn't really matter. The armor represents his father's body in any case.

 

It's not even the case. Shaw's ghost was meant to represent Anakin when he was a Jedi Knight. For consistency sake, it was changed to Hayden since that's who played the character before he turned.

 

I agree. I'm just rebutting the argument that is commonly made, which assumes that Shaw's ghost was supposed to represent a healed Anakin.

 

Sorry, its actually one the few SE changes I don't like.

 

If Obi-Wan's force spirit is Ben Kenobi, then Anakin's force spirit should be his current age.

Sacrificing himself to save his son is an act that is probably more moral than anything he did in ROTS.

 

You can rebut all you like. Those that believe so aren't likely to change our minds.

 

"It's like Poetry, it sorta rhymes ya know?"

 

It makes sense, though. The last time Anakin was a Jedi, he looked like Hayden, not an old man named Shaw (no offense to Shaw and Shaw-fans.) It'd make sense that this would be how Anakin would show himself, as this would be how he would've remembered himself looking like before he turned. While I get, and appreciate, how the Shaw-version is what Anakin could've looked like had he not turned, this does make sense to me as well.

 

I had forgotten that Luke would have been Anakin's age. Yeah that is another piece of symbolism.

They are both the same age when faced with the same choices. Anakin failed and turned to the Dark Side while Luke triumphed and rejected the Dark Side. Picking up where his father left off and will hopefully do everything Anakin was meant to do and more.

 

What bothers me is his evil smile

he looks like he is already planning to kill them again
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since I'm recovering from a cold, you just made me have a coughing fit from laughing, so thanks for that