CT What is wrong with Hayden as Anakin in the end scene of Return of the Jedi

If Anakin wanted to reveal himself in his purest form in ROTJ then Anakin from The Phantom Menace would make more sense. Besides, Hayden was mainly consumed by the darkside in episode II and III. ROTJ portrayal of Anakin could be viewed as Vader or Anakin. Since Skywalker turned before his full vader suit.

 

The answer comes from the fact that Jedi choose their form which to transcend into the Force, and they make that choice when they die. So, when the unmasked Vader died, we have to know which form he chose to transcend into the Force. That is supplied to us by the official novelization of ROTJ by James Kahn. The novelization describes Vader's thoughts as he dies, reflecting on his past when he was a handsome, grand, cocky young man, and wished Luke could see him like that, not the scarred, burned redeemed evil he saw.

 

Where in the FILMS is it established that the Jedi get to choose how they look as Force Ghosts?
That the novel goes into how Anakin is thinking back on how he used to look, that does not prove that he got a choice in the matter.
Why would Obi-Wan want to to look old as a ghost?

Also, if Anakin wants to look young, handsome and all that. Is that a good message?
Doesn't that mean that he is vain, concerned with looks and wanting to present an appealing visage to Luke?
How does that mesh with the man that finally found peace with himself, that learned to stop clinging to things and finally to simply be?

And Anakin cleary didn't know about this ability to become a ghost so how could he even make a choice? Obi-Wan and Yoda knew about it so they could "prepare" but Anakin had no idea.
What could make some sense is that Obi-Wan and Yoda brought him back and they used an image that they knew, young Anakin.

@Qui-Riv-Brid

But to me, and I've said this many times, old Anakin, Shaw's Anakin, is a better Jedi and a better person that he had ever been as an adult.
At no point during training to be a Jedi or actually being a Jedi, did Anakin fully learn what that really means. He never managed to let go of his attachments or his fear and anger.
He still clung to things and could not reach true enlightenment.

Only at the end did he finally understand, only then did he finally let go of the fear and anger that had ruled his life for so long. He let go of those negative feelings and embraced the love of his son.
The love of someone that accepted him even with all that he had done, that showed true compassion to him. And he broke the chains he had forged himself, chains made of fear, anger and hate.
He purged his soul of the venom that had poisoned it for decades.

So reverting to the Hayden person to me, does a disservice to the character of Anakin.
It implies regression instead or progression, that he goes back to the flawed and anger filled person he used to be. And not the the wiser and clamer person he was at the end of his life.
Anakin at the end had moved beyond the Vader side of himself. So showing the face of the person before Vader to me is not a good way to show this.
Anakin is a character went to hell and back again and at the end, it is more appropriate to show the full character arc of him.
The older face does this better. And a Hayden with old age makeup and actually acting could show that but that would cost money and take effort so we don't get that.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

While it isn't the most annoying change to the OT, it still carries several annoyances.

Let me count the ways,

1) Why are the OT being changed to fit the PT? = For the 2004 DVD release, several changes were made to fit the OT better with the prequels. For example, Boba Fett was made to sound like Jango Fett to fit in with him being a clone of Jango, as established in Episode II. Except here's my question. The OT are the ones that were already established. So why are we changing what we already know to fit in with the new stuff? Shouldn't that be reversed? Shouldn't the new stuff be made to fit in with what has already been established?

2) I was sick of changes in general = Look, I don't have a problem with a special edition existing for a fancy director's cut. Sometimes it results in some interesting things, like the director's cut of Blade Runner, the Donner cut of Superman II, or the special edition of the Exorcist which includes various interesting scenes that I wish were in the original cut (and several that weren't, but hey). If Lucas wanted to keep changing these films until 30 years after he was dead, I am totally fine with that. BUT, can I have the version I want? Can I have the version of the film that I grew up with and first experienced and the one I know to be the pure version? All those earlier examples I just listed exist on their own but I can watch any version of that film I want? In some cases, multiple versions are available on my Blu-Ray (Terminator 2 comes to mind). Having all these changes made to the film while also not being allowed to purchase the version I want to watch is aggravating and ridiculous.

Now for reasons more specific to this one change:

3) Too Much Hand Holding = One of my problems with cinema in general these days is that there is way too much handholding for the audience and not enough letting them connect the dots, add 2 and 2, and figure it out for themselves. To see what I'm talking about compare the original Karate Kid with the remake. In the original, Daniel is trained in karate via doing chores for Miyagi and that isn't made clear until we see Daniels' new skills on display. Its a jaw dropping scene that is explained visually and allows the audience to discover and learn right along with the protagonist. In the remake, while not a bad remake, the ideas of BALANCE are explained in such detail that alot of the magic is lost. There is no discovery because everything is just pounded into our brains.

Now lets take the end of Return of the Jedi. It is never verbally stated that the third ghost is Anakin Skywalker. Yeah he sort of looks like the unmasked Vader, but without the scarring, its tougher to tell. But even though it is never directly stated, we all figured it out. We know that his soul is redeemed and we know that Luke saved him, as was his goal in the film. This is all stuff we can draw from the visuals without having it spelled out to us.

Well, now lets put Hayden in there, the guy we saw in Attack of the Clones as Anakin. Yeah, while it is not spelled out verbally, we know this version of Anakin. We've seen him, and putting him there instead of the vision of Anakin in the original film doesn't allow us to connect the dots.

4) How would Luke know who that is? = While having Hayden there makes it too obvious for the audience, it has (or at least should) have the opposite effect on Luke. How in the Universe we know that young adult is his father? I'd be like "Uh, who are you?". It makes no sense for a younger version of Anakin to appear before a Luke, who never knew him to look anything like that.

5) Lucas' logic behind it makes no sense = So according to Lucas, Anakin's spirit reverted back to the what it was before his fall to the Dark Side. The problem though is that Anakin already rejected the dark side in his last moments. If anything, his soul should look like the burnt out, limbless husk that inhabited the Vader suit. To me, it makes the most sense for them to appear as they died or how Luke knew them (hence why there isn't a young Obi-Wan or young Yoda ghost).

 

I don't see what you are getting that there. You seem to be making "Shaw's" Anakin a different Anakin than "HC's" Anakin when they are both the same Anakin. So to me you are making it about the actor playing Anakin as opposed to the actual in-universe story of the character himself.

When philosophically dividing Anakin into Anakin and Vader who are really the same person but one who has forgotten his true name. The one aspect has consumed the other then that last part of good is reignited by Luke. You are attaching Anakin's state of being intrinsically to his physical appearance as opposed to his spiritual one. Which to me is rather odd in the way the movies work with the Force.

Yet clearly the physical form of Anakin in ROTJ IS NOT the one we see at the end with the spirit be it SS or HC. On top of that the physical form which again you seem to be arguing so much should be attached to is for a non-existent version of Anakin that doesn't exist physically and never did or could.

Exactly. Everything you argue is the reason why the HC Anakin is the only thing that makes any spiritual sense. Why would Anakin in spirit form have anything like the look of the scarred, deformed and Dark Side ridden body of his physical form?

It's at total opposite from what his spirit is. That body was Anakin's living skeleton. He was a dead man walking around in a mechanical suit kept alive by hatred and technology. Once his hatred was gone that body that lived on it quickly faded and was left behind.

I don't really see how. It's all about progression. Anakin had a choice to make in ROTS. At that moment he made the wrong and selfish choice and fell to the Dark Side and became Darth Vader. Now when given the choice again he made the right and selfless choice and became a Jedi again.

That is the path where his life changed. So in story terms it makes total sense that when he made the selfless Jedi choice that now his spirit reflects the way his life would have been had he made that choice at the time. So in ROTJ he becomes the Anakin Skywalker in spirit that he should have been. That is progression.

Now you are arguing against both HC and SS?

Which is exactly what the HC spirit does. The SS image of an Anakin who never existed at all doesn't show the arc. Yoda looks like Yoda in spirit, Obi-Wan looks like Obi-Wan in spirit. Why would Anakin not look like Anakin in spirit but like the physical form of Vader but healed as someone who never existed? How is that leaving Vader behind?

In spirit Anakin looks like he did as Vader in ROTJ? How is that showing an arc or progression? That is if anything regression.

Yet Vader is supposed to be left behind so why look like that? If Lucas wanted aged make-up he would have done it. He didn't.

I really can't help but feel this argument has far more to do with the actor's face as opposed to the character's face.

 

@ Qui-Riv-Brid

This is all personal preference, so there is nothing really to argue about, but I'll tell you why Shaw worked better for me, and why I think it would have been the better choice to leave him in.

Had Luke defeated and killed Vader whilst he was still evil, then the younger Anakin may well have worked better. A vision of the man before he turned to evil. However, Anakin did return in his last moments, and even scarred, gave Luke a glimpse of a kinder face. Through the Force then, he was redeemed fully and appeared without scars. I don't particularly buy into the idea that using Shaw was wrong because "old, unscarred Anakin never existed" I think that is unimportant.

What is important, to me, is that Shaw's appearance is very poignant. It ties in nicely to his appearance just moments before, and gives a sad reminder to Luke of just who his father could have, and should have been at the time of his death. Hand in hand with that, is something hopeful. We know Luke can commune with Obi-Wan through the Force, then we get the shot of Yoda, and then finally Anakin, who represents an older man who can still be a father to Luke to a certain degree.

I don't want my dad to be the same age as me, I want him to be my dad, and represent a man who has gone before me and has twenty-odd years worth of more life experience than I do. A man who can impart advice and wisdom because he is older and wiser than I am. That effect worked better with an older man then in comparison to Luke's age at the end of the movie.

 

Old Anakin is a different Anakin than his younger self.
Old Anakin managed to do what his younger self never could, pass the test. Let go of his hate and anger. let go of his fear of death.
Only at the end did Anakin learn to embrace life and death and accept death as inevitable and to stop resisting it.
I would even say that old Anakin is a better Jedi than young Anakin ever was.
Young Anakin never really did learn to master his fear or his anger, all he could was to hide them.
Old Anakin was enlightened in a way that his younger self never was.

People change, Severus Snape was changed by his unrequited love for Lily and her murder made him switch sides. Draco Malfoy changed from evil little git to a somewhat decent person.

Same with Anakin, the person he was in AotC and RotS was an angry young man, who could not let go, who let his fear rule him and let it drive him to do terrible things.
Only after going through Hell and finding a son who still loved him despite all he had done and that showed him that the dark side can be resisted, then and only then did he finally let go of his hate and fear and broke the chains that he had forged all those years ago.

So spiritually, old Anakin is very different from young Anakin.
Old Anakin was at peace, young Anakin was never at peace.
So the best image to show Anakin at peace is old Anakin.

And the version you argue for likewise never existed.
RotS Hayden was missing an arm so an Anakin with RotS Hayden's face could not have two arms.

The SS ghost is the same Anakin we and Luke saw die, only his wounds are healed and his clothes are different.
Ghost Obi-Wan has no wounds and he even has the cloak he left behind in ANH.
So that fits.
The HC ghost breaks internal logic with no explanation. He looks too young to he Anakin at death. His face is that of RotS era Anakin which means he should be missing an arm. The clothes he wears are clothes he never wore.

Nope, Anakin was never dead or gone, he was always there. Consumed by hate and fear and badly burned sure. But Anakin was always there under the Vader mask, he just would never admit it as it was too painful.
That is Luke's main point and why Obi-Wan was wrong. Obi-Wan saw Anakin as dead and gone and only evil Vader was left. Luke proved him wrong.
Your version not only undermines Luke's insight but also the redemption arc of Anakin.

When Anakin died, he was at peace, he had let go of his hate and fear, the dark side was gone from his body. But the effects of them were not.
So the old ghost perfectly shows the full character journey of Anakin Skywalker.
It shows him as an older man, which is what he was when he died. It shows him healed of his wounds and scars, showing that the dark side is purged from him. But he is still old, so not all the consequences of his choices are gone.

Young ghost instead tries to pretend that Vader never happened, that is was all bad dream and is totally gone now.

To me, even before the choice in RotS, Anakin had done many dark and terrible things. He had murdered children, killed helpless people. And he was not a good Jedi. He could not let go of things, he let his fear rule him and by doing that, do horrible things. He broke the Jedi code time and again.

The PT choose to make Anakin's fall gradual, to have him to increasingly darker things until he went over the edge. That is ok but it had the consequence for me that I didn't really see a good person in Anakin in either AotC or RotS. It also didn't help that I found the character very annoying in AotC.
In RotS he is better but still has problems.

As for Hayden supposed to be an Anakin where he made a different choice in RotS.
That totally does not work. If that was the goal then Hayden needed some old age make up as he is looks far too young to be almost 50 years old.
Instead it implies regression, that Anakin has reverted to the person he was just before the turn.
The person that murdered children, that killed a helpless Dooku. That could not let go and was afraid of death and could not control his anger.

Also, even if we go with the idea that Hayden's ghost is supposed to be one where his turn never happened.
Doesn't that pretend that Vader never happened? That all the bad things Vader did should just be forgotten? That Anakin has forgotten them? That the choices he made left no mark on him?
I don't agree, I think having an older Anakin shows that those things happened, Anakin lived those years and did those things.
And having Shaw there and having Anakin look older than he really was, reinforces that point.
Anakin is forgiven but his what he did is not forgotten, least of which by himself.

Nope, Shaw's face was under the Vader mask sure but Shaw was the Anakin that could break out of that prison. That broke the chains of fear and anger that he himself made. That purged himself of the venom of the dark side.
HC was making those chains and the venom of the dark side was already in him before the turn.
So showing him as the ghost does not work.
Unless he had some old age makeup.

Shaw played an Anakin that did bad things and lots of them but also changed his life, he let go of fear and hate, he ended an evil dictator and purged himself of the dark side.
So his face is the only adult Anakin that is no longer ruled by fear and anger and not filled with dark side venom.

Nope, HC shows an Anakin before the turn to the dark side and before the turn back. So all that is gone. As I said above, the HC ghost also never existed looking like that.
Yoda looks like Yoda when he died, Obi-Wan look like Obi-Wan when he died, minus wounds. Shaw fits well with that. It looks like Anakin when he died but minus his wounds.

So the HC ghost is before Vader, the SS is after Vader and acknowledges that Vader did happen but Anakin is past him now.
HC ghost shows an Anakin that has not passed that test, has not yet confronted Vader and been able to pass beyond him.

Nope, as I said above, his healed ghost shows that he has been redeemed, turned back but that he is old shows that what he did before still happened. So there is forgiveness but not forgetting.
HC ghost does that.

Lucas didn't because he wanted to be cheap and lazy. And doing it with makeup would cost money and take time and he would also have to tell Hayden about it.
All things Lucas wasn't interested in so it was done as cheaply as possible.
And Lucas could not even be bothered to tell Hayden about it, he had to find out via the press.

[/QUOTE]

Oh don't pretend you have done exactly this.
You have used the face of Shaw and argued he looks too old for the character of Anakin.
Several people that argue for HC and against Shaw have used the age of the actor as a factor.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

I agree. And there is a poignancy to him being old, because it is a reminder of all those years he wasted as Darth Vader, when he could have done so much more with his life. Using Shaw was an indicator of how we can regret the choices we make, but we cannot turn back the clock. Using Hayden sort of undermined that and made the scene less powerful, in my opinion.

 

I hate it bc:

1) Luke wouldn't even know who this young guy is
2) It devalues Anakin's redemption since it indicates his Jedi self was when he was young, even though he repented and became a Jedi again at the end.
3) I don't want any memory of those horrible prequels in the originals!!
4) I never thought about it before but it is disrespectful to Sebastian Shaw

 

anakinfan edit: That comic has a disallowed word.

 

3 - Absolutely!
4 - This is the one that gets overlooked the most...what a kick in the face!

 

Sebastian Shaw's actual damn performance is still in the movie, my friend. You know, as opposed to the recording of him doing what he thought was a publicity shoot which was then inserted into the movie without his knowledge.

It doesn't matter anyway because it's the filmmaker's prerogative what to take out and what to put into his movie. Lucas wasn't disrespecting Garrick Hagon as an actor by deleting most of his hard work from ANH; he was doing what he thought was best for the story. From my point of view, your framing these purely artistic decisions in the raw personal terms you are is nothing more than an intentional ploy to boost your argument using cynical appeals to emotion.

 

Oh really - I hadn't noticed! You brought nothing new to the table...

 

This nails it. Think about the scenes between Anakin near the end of RotJ. Him asking Luke to take off his mask. Telling Luke he was right, & to pass that on to his sister. Asking his son to go & leave him behind so Luke can save himself. Smiling at Luke, which prompts tears from his son. Simple question: who is that? It's Anakin Skywalker I always thought. Who came back from the Dark Side. Who rejected the persona of Darth Vader. Who found some goodness within himself. What's wrong with that Anakin appearing as a spirit? Just like older Obi-Wan & Yoda. I'd argue that Anakin at that age, who had just killed the Emperor & saved Luke was far nobler than RotS Anakin. Who at that point was well on the path to the Dark Side. Let's recall, that particular image/version of Anakin was named Darth Vader. Looking just like that he murdered children, assaulted his pregnant wife & helped ruin the galaxy. That Anakin embraced & became Darth Vader. The older version rejected Darth Vader. It's a terrible change to the movie.

 

1st off, calm down, those are my opinions and others that agree with them, if you don't feel that way, that's fine

2nd off, even using "my pov", don't accuse others of why they're doing something, my reasons were my reasons and it wasn't about appealing to others, I wasn't requiring anybody to agree with me

 

Again this is the point. That chain forged from the moment he chose to side with Sidious against Mace. The parallel is right there. He chose the selfish and greedy way which he knew was wrong but did it anyway for that reason. From there his spirit was damaged which then corrupted his physical form. The corruption of the spirit became the corruption of the body. When he purged his spirit then all that corruption within was purged. Needless to say the body was too. The body that was left behind to be burned away.

Apparently he didn't purge himself of the Dark Side totally because he kept that visage in spirit and therefore that venom. Where is the purge part in action? He should only be partially purged?

Except he clearly doesn't. His entire being is a walking wound that was burned into him on Mustafar. Minus the wounds and healed he would look like Anakin Skywalker as he was not a humanized version of Darth Vader. The good is within him in his spirit. The spirit can't exist in that body which is essence is a zombie kept alive mechanically.

It shows exactly that. Which is the point. The SS image clearly has not been able to pass beyond him.

It's not really about forgiveness as such. No one can really forgive him for what he did as Vader. He realized the mistakes he made and went from being selfish and working to use the Force for his own ends to being selfless and working with the Force. There is no conscious intelligence in the Force that forgives. The only forgiveness as such was Obi-Wan and Yoda who captured his spirit from merging with the Force. The point being that he let go of everything which is what he couldn't do before. The Vader aspect is just that. It's about hanging on when there is nothing to hang on to. When he's let go everything that was the physical form of Vader is let go. His spirit still being connected to a physical look of Vader makes little sense since that self is gone. he's back to being the Anakin before Vader.

So just like Shaw then. After all Lucas was only spending 100M on the movie. Another few thousand would bust him! Again it seems to me it's about the actor not the character. I find it hard to believe that if it was done that way then the people against if for that reason would suddenly be on board.

I don't have to since I don't.

He is too old for the character of Anakin. A healed Anakin would not look like a senior citizen. The only way that even works at all is if he is only somehow partly not fully healed which makes no sense.

If SS could have passed for 45 or so then at least there would be an argument. At least if he would look like Anakin then it'd be the difference between AG and EM who in terms of movies are quite close and believable as an older version of the character.

 

all this talk about how ages sync up based off the actors, that's really deep level thinking on this subject that I never would think about while watching that scene

I just don't get why it isn't easy to just go, okay the Force ghost of Yoda and Obi-Wan are those current versions of themselves when they died, so obviously the Anakin ghost is of the guy that you saw when Luke took the mask off...it's simply jarring to see young Anakin show up there, you're like wait....what, why???

it's a lot like a cartoon/comic I saw on this board earlier where Obi-Wan and Yoda ask Anakin how he was young and then they make themselves young too....that was hilarious!!! but just raised the honest point of the simplistic problem of interjecting young Anakin back into that shot

 

Except that body isn't Anakin's. It's Vader's. Obi-Wan and Yoda's bodies disappear into the Force and that is what they look like. Anakin's body can't disappear into the Force because he doesn't have one as such. That is the body of Vader which is left behind and doesn't not join the Force. The Vader body is the tomb of Anakin Skywalker. The spirit of Anakin was freed from the living walking dead that was Vader. Vader no longer exists but Anakin does.

For Sith there is no spirit. There is nothing beyond physical existence. A Sith can't become a Force spirit. Anakin's spirit was renewed and he was able to use the Sith form for one act. Then that body was finished. He couldn't exist in it for but moments after.

 

your explanation makes sense when spelled out, I just would never take that kind of time to think through all that when watching the movie

 

Most people don't because they are just watching the movie and that is the way they look at them. For a part of the audience they do think about that.

In story terms simply doing what makes the most sense in a movie the point of HC's image for Anakin is that it is what Anakin looks like. In the movies, TCW and all media. To have someone who doesn't look like that doesn't really work.

 

jw what would be your answers to these issues...

1) Luke wouldn't know who he was looking at
2) dispels the concept of redemption since Anakin is an Anakin from many years ago, that's reversion if he has to return to someone from the past before the fall, redemption would be current Anakin bc he's been through it all and has gone to the dark side and has now returned to the light

 

The whole movie is about Luke feeling his father's presence as Anakin even when he didn't feel or acknowledge it himself. They feel each other in the Force over and again.

That drives Luke and he feels what Yoda and Obi-Wan or the Emperor can't. It's impossible for them to conceive of Anakin ever returning.

Vader might kill the Emperor but only for himself. He would never sacrifice himself to save someone. That is impossible. Only Anakin would be able to do that.

Exactly. As I said above he has returned to the Light and Vader has been purged. Vader was about the physical, the greed and power. Anakin is about letting go of all that.

Yoda said that Anakin was gone and consumed by Darth Vader. He was wrong. Anakin was not totally consumed. There was a shred of Anakin left that Luke brought back. Now Vader is gone and has been burnt away. Anakin's spirit is free and no longer trapped by the physical Sith form that only could exist that way.

 

of course, no one is asking the Force ghost to be of Darth Vader in his suit, but 50?? yr old Anakin is still alive underneath that mask and is the one who is redeemed, so the issue would be 20 yr old Anakin is a reversion to before the fall and redemption, older Anakin is the redeemed one having fallen and been redeemed

 

Nope, Anakin had forged that chain long before the turn in RotS.
He was working on it all through AotC and had worked on it before then.

The Anakin that Hayden played was ruled by his fear and his attachments and his anger.
He could not let go of those things, he tried to hide them and pretend they weren't there but they were.
His spirit was badly maimed after the Tusken massacre. It got even more corrupt after Dooku's murder. It was tainted by the venom of the dark side long before he bent the knee before Palpatine.

The older Anakin is the only adult Anakin that is no longer ruled by fear and anger, that has learned to let go.
Older Anakin is at peace, younger Anakin never was.

As I said, Hayden was also tainted by that venom but his Anakin never purged himself, Shaw did.
He turned away from the dark side, he let go of his hate and fear and looked upon his son with love and gratitude.
Him being a force ghost shows that he purged himself but the time he spent as Vader is not forgotten.

No, he clearly does.
Anakin never died, never went away. He was always there, tainted by the dark side and bound by chains he made over the course of many years.
When he died, he was Anakin Skywalker, a good man and a good Jedi. And he was finally at peace with himself and the universe.
So the best way to show that is to have an old ghost, the final image of Anakin Skywalker.
You have bought into what Obi-Wan said, that Anakin is gone, only evil Vader is there.
But you forget that Luke proved him wrong. His father was still there, he just didn't want to admit it.

Your version have the character arc of Anakin go on until the turn in RotS, then it is put on hold until the end of RotJ.
I don't agree. The character arc or journey of Anakin Skywalker doesn't stop when he turns. It goes on. And continues over the three OT films. Anakin is still there even if he doesn't want to acknowledge the name. He is still on a journey, he still has things to learn.
And his most important lesson is the one he learns just before he turns back.
That the dark side can be rejected and that his son loves him, even with all that he has done.
That lesson makes him break his own chains, purge himself of the venom and destroy his evil master and save his son.
So having the older Anakin is the best final image of Anakin. That shows the full journey of the character, not just the first half.

Wrong, Hayden's Anakin has not been able to let go, of his fear, anger or his attachments.
Shaw's Anakin has done all that. Thus he has moved past vader, he has bested that side of him.
Hayden's Anakin has not.
I really don't see how you can deny that Shaw played Anakin Skywalker AFTER he had turned away from the Dark side, the Anakin that died at peace, that thanked his son and told him to tell his sister that he was right about him. All of this is post Vader.

Hayden was pre Vader or actual Vader.


This is Darth Vader, and played by HC.

The Force has forgiven him and there is an intelligence in the Force as it gave orders to the midis in Shmi to create Anakin. And it would also have told them how to alter Shmi's DNA to make Anakin male.
The Force has a will, this said several times. If it has a will then it must have a mind of sorts.

And as I've said above, HC's Anakin was one who clung to things, could not let go and so having that as the image of an Anakin that has let go is totally wrong.
Shaw's Anakin learned to let go and did let go. HC's never could.

The self Anakin has at the end is very different from the self he used to have when he was younger. That self was ruled by fear and anger, it wanted to stop death.
His older self accepted death and didn't fight it.

So Lucas being cheap and lazy before makes it ok for him to be cheap and lazy now?
To me it shows the difference between him and Kershner. The former takes short cuts but the latter don't. Something that annoyed Lucas, that Kershner went the extra mile.
When he made RotS he had money so why he did it in this cheap way is baffling.
As is him not even bothering to tell Hayden about it.

As for finding something hard to believe. I believe that if Lucas had NOT changed this, then you and those that argue for it would be totally fine with the film as is.

So you say but right away you contradict yourself.

See?
Here you take the age of the actor and say he is too old.
Plus you create a problem since "too old" Shaw is still IN the film, playing Anakin Skwyalker.
If your want consistency then by your argument Shaw should be totally gone.

But he is still there so you end up with a too old Anakin and a too young Force Ghost.
I have a hard time seeing how this is better.
If Shaw is in both scenes then at least the film is consistent with itself. And it matches the other two ghosts.

As for him not being fully healed.
A person that lives in the desert will most likely "age" faster in that the face is more parched, weathered and seasoned. So such a person might look older than he really is.
A person that smokes and drinks a lot could likewise "age" prematurely.
If that person also lost a leg at one point and then dies and the ghost has both legs but still looks "old".
The premature aging is not a "wound" as such and isn't "healed".

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Shaw looks like Anakin because he PLAYS Anakin Skywalker.
And again you create problems for the film since Shaw "Doesn't look like Anakin" is still IN the film.

Also, when RotJ was made, Anakin wasn't supposed to be 45, he was meant to be older.
As was Obi-Wan.
When making the PT Lucas didn't want that. But why blame RotJ for that?
Shouldn't the newer films be made to match the existing ones?

Also Shaw still works as an Anakin that has been aged prematurely. Both due to the corruption of the dark side and him being stuck inside a walking iron lung for over twenty years.
I would imagine that would not be good for your looks.
So him looking old under the mask works and to me he looks to be of an age with Sir Alec.
And having the ghost look old shows that while Anakin has moved beyond Vader, Vader still happened. The years he spent as Vader left a mark on him looking old beyond his years.
So he will always remember that.
Unlike the HC ghost that tries to pretend that Vader never happened and could just be forgotten.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

yea I really don't get the Shaw was too old argument in light of you saw Shaw when Luke took off Vader's mask

also, what do the lack of injuries or lack of certain body parts matter about Anakin's Force ghost, did you really expect his Force ghost to look like injured Vader or be missing parts of his body?? that would suck for any afterlife, oh I lost my hand, guess my spirit will be missing it, oh I got killed bc my head got caved in with a hammer, guess I'll have a misshapen head forever now