What is wrong with the Ewoks? What is wrong with ROTJ? Logical arguments, please.

I actually think ROTJ is a very strong conclusion and entry in the trilogy. What it needs is some editing to correct a few pacing problems. The Han Solo rescue is far too long and needs a hatchet in the editing room. The Ewoks I think are an easy scapegoat, they aren't Gungan bad

 

You forgot that Vader pretty much foreshadows the climax of ANH in particular. "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."

Seriously, I like ROTJ. It's my third-favorite SW movie. LOL But it did seem random that they go from saving Han to blowing up a second Death Star. But yeah, in light of the PT, Luke's attachments are more and more relevant to ROTJ.

 

First of all, I want to mention that I truly enjoy the first half of ROTJ with Jabba's palace, Han's rescue, etc. Jabba's creatures are, for the most part, very interesting and these throne room "creature feature" scenes seem like an homage to the similar ensemble Cantina scene in ANH. Also, Jabba the Hutt himself is an incredible design (one of the coolest alien designs in sci-fi), and looks both menacing and disgusting at the same time.

And, the story/plot here was great as well. It was very clever to have Lando, the Droids, Leia & Chewie, and then Luke infiltrating their way into the palace in order to rescue Han - this reminded me slightly of the old "Mission Impossible" series (but much better, of course).

Also, the sail barge battle sequences were great - very suspenseful, especially the scenes (and music) leading up to Artoo propelling the hidden lightsaber to Luke.

(And, I don't mind the "Special Edition additions" that were added to these scenes back in 1997.)

However, the second half of the film didn't work for several reasons:

- The Ewoks are visually and conceptually very inappropriate in a SW film. Note this is not because we see a primitive group of creatures defeating a larger and technologically superior force (something we have seen before in Earth's history), but because of the physical appearance of the Ewoks - as has been said many times before, having cute and cuddly teddy bears be the ones that go against the stormtroopers visually just doesn't work - it looks ridiculous, and the cute Ewoks are extremely out of place in a SW film, based on what we saw in ANH and ESB (both of which were, overall, very serious films).

I think the original idea of having Wookies as the group that went against the Imperials would've worked great, but I completely understand that this wasn't done was for financial and logistical reasons - Back in 1982 (when ROTJ was filmed), CGI was very primitive, and therefore it would have been very tough (if not impossible) to find and outfit a group of 7-foot tall performers to play the part of the Wookies (of course, this idea was resurrected and modified for the great Wookie battle scene in ROTS).

This all being said, I think the inclusion of the Ewoks would have worked if they had visually looked differently - in the initial scene when the heroes have just fallen out of the net-trap, there are a group of Ewoks cautiously approaching them - one of them (Teebo?) looks very menacing and warrior-like. If they had all looked similar to this Ewok, the movie would have been great. Instead, they all looked similar to Wicket W. Warrick and Chief Chirpa.

Going along with this, as the movie now stands I think it could definitely be improved if the whole sequence with Leia meeting Wicket had been completely edited out of the film. Though it serves as an explanation for why Leia ended up in the Ewok village, IMHO it would have been much better to just show Leia passing out after the Speeder Bike crashed, and then showing up in the village later (as we saw). This scene with her and Wicket just reinforces the "cutesy-ness" of the Ewoks, and I don't feel it's necessary for the story.

- Han Solo's one liners and "witty" remarks. Though I could deal with this in the Jabba's palace and Sail barge sequences, the character's silly remarks ("And don't take all day", "Hey, it's me!", "I told you this was gonna work"), clumsiness (stepping on the twigs and alerting the Biker Scouts), etc. were very
over-the-top in the second half of the film, and IMHO took away from the seriousness of the movie.

 

My absolute favouite part of the whole saga!

 

I kind of liked how the Cuteness of the Ewoks betrayed their vicious demeanor.

Sure, they look cute, but they were going to eat Han, Luke and Chewbacca.

Get that? Ewoks eat Wookies for breakfast.

 

Where exactly did the Empire decimate the ewoks (besides in the novel)?

By my count, 1 (one) measly ewok died on screen. In contrast, plenty of stormies are shown to be killed by ewoks. The audiance will accept what they see with their own eyes as the truth, so you can't say "plenty of ewoks died off-screen", because it's all about perception. If many ewoks died, they should have showed us this.

And I do think there's a difference between light hearted and childish. IMO, ANH is light hearted. ROTJ is childish.

 

Ewoks-The preset traps are a little much.The battle doesn't focus enough on the rebel troops using the Ewok distraction.Arrows,the club weapons and bolos shouldn't work on stormtroopers.Troop to troop fighting was favoring the ewoks,which shouldn't be happening with no effective weapons and only a handful of human fighters.Ewoks aren't physically a match because how awkward the actors look and move in the ewok suits.Stormie no have camo and running from the ATST instead of destroying it ect ect.BrandoLando really nailed it"The problem is mostly in the execution which is SO cheap and unconvincing (which includes the empire's side of the battle too)."

ROTJ-I'll agree with Gary_Buchenara 1-4 post.I'd add

5)The Goofy tone that was not present in SW and Empire
6)Villans are easy to beat and go down wimpy
7)It's a visually ugly movie,like a made for TV movie

 

If enough vintage material is read Lucas may of had some of these ideas in place but the fact is much of his decision making comes down to money. His dream at the time was to secure Skywalker ranch and despite profits from Empire being made it drastically went over budget and Lucas was not happy about the pacing of the movie or all the drama involved with the cast and crew.

The original ROTJ script was in many respects a different movie but Lucas altered it for many reasons. Appealing to kids and bringing more joy back into the trilogy made him at least $50 Million not including any spin offs, this money he desperately needed for his MAIN dream project - The ranch.

Kurtz along with other key members preferred Lucas's original concept which was more in line with Empire.

Personally, I like Jedi, it is the weakest of the three IMO but it definately strikes a cord with me still. Re-hash, kids movie or whatever it is still a classic despite it's flaws.

 

I always wonder how ROTJ could be perceived as childish, because one of the most complex and multifaceted duels of the entire Saga -- that is, the one between Vader and his son -- occurs during this film.

 

Darthvaderv, the details about the ESB budget form the most cogent explanation yet of ROTJ's missed opportunities. Where would I find those details documented?

 

I meant the overall tone of the movie. The scenes in the Emperor's throne room are a big exception. They really work and I love those parts. The Emperor is a bit too stereotypically evil though, but he is still an entertaining villain.