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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

What is wrong with TPM?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Phantom Menace' started by flowerbee, Sep 7, 2004.

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  1. HanSolOKniser3

    HanSolOKniser3 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    These are some things about the movie that other people tell me that they didn't like.

    1. Jake Lloyd. Bad acting.
    2. Jar Jar Binks. Bad character.
    3. Darth Maul. His role being way to small.
    4. Pod-racing. Way too obnoxious.
    5. Natalie Portman. Her acting lacks passion.


    Personally, the only one of those "problems" that I agree (partially) with is Natalie Portman's acting seems flat to me at times. I think that her Queen Amidala is great, but her Padme is...well, flat.

    I think I heard her say somewhere that she really didn't enjoy the process of filming parts of TPM. To me it shows in some of her performance.


    [face_peace]
    :)
    [face_monkey]

     
  2. Lord_Fett

    Lord_Fett Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Before bashing TPM remember what the target audience was for this: kids. GL said before TPM came out that the movie was made for children. And from that POV it's a pretty good movie: every kid loved it.

    So TPM was a good movie.
     
  3. Bucky-Katt

    Bucky-Katt Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Hi.

    I watched TPM for the first time in almost 2 years last night. (All the reviews on the OT DVDs have really re-ignited my love for Star Wars) I have to say, that after that extended time of not watching the film, it really let me watch it with fresh eyes. to be honest, it was almost like the first time again. I had forgotten so much about the movie. After my viewing, I have to say that I really enjoyed it. With the extension of the story in AOTC, it helped my enjoyment of TPM. I had always thought that TPM was a movie that was never going to be able to stand on its own. It needs parts 2 and 3 to help flesh out things that happened. It's going to be interesting to go back and watch TPM after ROTS comes out to see how everything, from the story to the music, ties together.

    When I first saw TPM in May of 99, I have to admit that after I left the theater I wasn't quite sure how to feel. I know I enjoyed the movie, but I guess I was expecting to have all the answers right away. I can see what some people have said here. When this movie was first announced, fans had the grand idea of what it was going to be. I know I did. No movie would ever be able to stand up to that. Even the LOTR trilogy, as spectacular as that was, doesn't match the idea I had in my mind for the film version. And now, with AOTC being released, I can see TPM for what it was. An introduction. For me, the story really started in AOTC. TPM was the introduction to these new characters, the political situation, etc.

    Now, I may be way off topic in everything I said, which, in all honesty, is a reason I don't post much (I tend to have a hard time putting my thoughts down "on paper.")

    What this all boils down to is that I really like this movie now. much more than I did the day I saw it in the theater, much more than I did the first time I watched the VHS, and much more than I did the first time I watched the DVD.

    So what's wrong with TPM? Nothing in my mind. Can't wait for ROTS!!

    Brian
     
  4. Ed-A_1978

    Ed-A_1978 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 2004
    I can never understand why people complain about Jake Lloyd's acting. HE WAS 9 YEARS OLD. He didn't have the acting experience of his co-stars.
     
  5. Darth Pikachuwbacca

    Darth Pikachuwbacca Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 22, 2000
    It's all about expectations.

    For example:

    Fans loved the LOTR movies because they were more or less exactly what they were expecting, based on what is in the books.

    When it came to Episode I: Nobody expected a Anakin as a child, or Midichlorians, or Trade Federations, or Threepio's origins. When Episode II came around, people generally liked it more than Episode I (I didn't) because they had some form of foundation laid with the first episode (whether they liked it or not) and kind of knew what to expect. At least in terms of how different the galaxy was during the prequel time frame compared to the 'classic' time frame.

    That's my simplified arguement anyways.
     
  6. openmind

    openmind Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2003
    I think (those who find TPM unbearable) is because they expected, the same urgency that was in the OT. However, TPM being the time of the Jedi in abundance, showed a more "controlled" situation. However, the more people see the connections how the events lead to the OT, would start to understand a little bit more what SW is about.
     
  7. HanSolo29

    HanSolo29 RPF/SWC/Fan Art Manager & Bill Pullman Connoisseur star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2001
    What is wrong with TPM? Just a few things. I can sit through this film and enjoy it for the most part. The story was fine - except the little tidbit about Anakin having a virgin birth. I'm a fairly religious person and having Anakin being compared to Jesus is disturbing for me. It's something that shouldn't have happened, IMO.

    Another gripe is the characters. I know others have already stated this, but I'm gonna go ahead and put it on my list as well. I couldn't care for the characters. By the end of the film, I was like "Who cares?" I know my friend describes the characters as "the PT paper people." Don't ask - I just found it funny and it fit in with how I felt toward them. The only well established characters in the film were Shmi and Qui-Gon. I would have enjoyed it a lot more if they had more screen time.

    And finally, the pacing. Some segments were slow while others went by too fast. I know one scene that was particulary drawn out was the pod race. I'm sorry, but I'm gonna have to agree with FORCE_SKIN on this one. It puts me to sleep.

    I know I could go into other tiny details like Jake Lloyd's acting and the use of CGI in the film, but they don't bother me as much as the others that I have listed above.
     
  8. SkottASkywalker

    SkottASkywalker Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2002
    What is wrong with TPM?

    Nothing.

    STAR WARS EPISODE I: THE PHANTOM MENACE is a great movie. Totally enjoyable. A worthy edition to the STAR WARS Saga. :cool:
     
  9. SWFAN85712

    SWFAN85712 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2004
    The effects in TPM still hold up perfectly in most cases. It was a real breakthrough. Wasn`t the Gungans vs.Battle Droids one of the first completely CGI-ed scene in a real-action movie? Jar Jar is a piece of CGI art. He can still rival up with Gollum, IMO.
    Exactly, most people forget during this period of time that the Gungan battle used an unprecedented amount of CGI. This was a huge break-thru.
     
  10. mjerome3

    mjerome3 Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 11, 2000
    There was nothing wrong with The Phantom Menace. I loved the movie and have never said anything negative about it. The movie was geared towards minors. You can look at it and know that.

    When TPM came out five years ago, there were so many people saying bad things about it. Jar-Jar was this, Qui-Gon was that, Jake Lloydd was this, Natalie Portman was that.

    I've never understood it to this day.
     
  11. Ed-A_1978

    Ed-A_1978 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 2004
    "When TPM came out five years ago, there were so many people saying bad things about it. Jar-Jar was this, Qui-Gon was that, Jake Lloydd was this, Natalie Portman was that."

    Five years ago? Hell, they still moan about those things now.
     
  12. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    I can never understand why people complain about Jake Lloyd's acting. HE WAS 9 YEARS OLD. He didn't have the acting experience of his co-stars.

    There are plenty of good performances by child actors in other movies, why should we excuse Jake Lloyd's performance ?

    Fans loved the LOTR movies because they were more or less exactly what they were expecting, based on what is in the books.

    I'd say the opposite - LOTR had a huge army of fans all of whom had read the books and had their own ideas about how it should look. Films based on books often disappoint the people who've read the books. It also had to leave out tons of material.

    When it came to Episode I: Nobody expected a Anakin as a child

    What??
    TPM was heavily promoted, it was made quite clear for months before it opened that Anakin was a child in the story. Did you see it not knowing this?

    or Midichlorians, or Trade Federations, or Threepio's origins.

    When people saw TESB it had all sorts of things they weren't expecting and yet they loved it.
    This 'expectations' argument just doesn't work, it's just an attempt to explain away the films flaws by blaming the audience.
    Nah.

    Plus - the film is 5 years old, so we've had plenty of time to get used to it, and it still doesn't work.
    It isn't about expectations.

    I think (those who find TPM unbearable) is because they expected, the same urgency that was in the OT

    Well the first hal-hour of ANH is quite slow, so forget that theory.
    It isn't about expectations, people see all sorts of unexpected things in movies and love them.

    Exactly, most people forget during this period of time that the Gungan battle used an unprecedented amount of CGI. This was a huge break-thru.

    While I'd agree that JJ was somewhat of a breakthrough, I thought the Gungan battle was crap, and as for the quantity of CGI - well Starship Troopers was better in that respect a couple of years before, the swarms of bugs in that movie were more impressive.

    g
     
  13. hadrian_27

    hadrian_27 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2004
    Having seen TPM before I saw the OT (which I rushed to see days afterwards) I can say that TPM is a worthwile intro to the saga, and after my first viewing I was hard pressed to find any blatant flaws...

    ...until I read the opinions of some other people, that is.
     
  14. Loco_for_Lucas

    Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    Five years ago? Hell, they still moan about those things now.


    At least it's talked about, beats everyone gushing about it five years after its release. Balances out quite nicely. :p
     
  15. openmind

    openmind Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2003
    At least it's talked about, beats everyone gushing about it five years after its release.

    No! Gush about SW on a SW board? Its impossible! [face_devil]
     
  16. Loco_for_Lucas

    Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    I know! The idea is so absurd! [face_dancing] :p
     
  17. Ididitall4thewookie

    Ididitall4thewookie Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2004
    Ok Im gonna bash for a minute, but I will try to be respectful about it.

    TPM is so close to being a GREAT movie. I dont mind all the CGI because, hell, this IS Star Wars we are talking about. I will even say the JJ was visually incredible.

    However, the acting is terrible. It just didnt seem like anyone cared. And knowing that these all are good actors, the blame has to put on the director's shoulders.
    I will also say that the dialogue is awful. Does anyone remember when Amidala and the Jedi finally come face to face and Qui Gon is tring to convince her to go to Cosuscant? Every spoken line in that scene is ridiculously wooden.

    Both Maul and OB1 were way underutilized. Especially since OB1 was basically the main character of the next movie, and Maul could have been a really cool recurring pain in their sides maybe even into the next movie. If he is barely there, at least give him some more lines.

    The midichlorians? Completely unnecessary and distracting. The Virgin birth? Completely unnecessary and distracting.

    The Podrace was cool.

    The space battle lacked the urgency and the passion of ANH.

    What makes me angry when people complain about other fans being disappointed in TPM or the PT in general, is that they seem to think we are waiting to see the movie ready to hate it and to pounce so we can bitch and moan. This is utterly not true. Is it so incomprehensible that we just feel like the execution of this movie was so poor and are disappointed? Like I said, TPM was so close to being a great movie because it had a great main story and the characters had so much potential to be great. Sadly, the film feels rushed through so they could get to post production and add cool special effects.

    I also dont like the argument that TPM was geared towards kids so we should suspend our judgment. That is crap and a copout. Dont make a series of cool adventure movies geared toward EVERYONE then get us hyped up about a movie we had waited 15 years to see then make a movie for kids.
     
  18. hoth-nudist

    hoth-nudist Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2000
    TPM had potential to be great. There are several entertaining elements to it. I liked about 30% of the movie. TPM is wrong IMO because:

    1) The acting
    2) Needs to be a reason for a TF blockade
    3) Why does the Sith return? why revenge?
    4) pointless comic relief character (jarjar)
    5) Maul needs bigger presence and speaking role.
    6) Anakin needs to start out older
    7) obiwan needs to be an experience jedi already
    8) Give me a reason to care about naboo, there's no developement
    9) How is the senate corrupt? besides word of mouth.
    10) Need clone developement

    There's much more to that list. The ones Ive listed are mainly due to there being just 3 movies at 2 hours and 20 minutes apiece to explain it all. The story is just too big and there's not enough time for comic relief and celebrations. Ep1 is the start of the "Dark Times". There is nothing to indicate that.

     
  19. Jedi_Emilie

    Jedi_Emilie Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2004

    What's wrong with TPM?
    Well, it lacks that special spirit that makes you (me) want to watch the OT as often as you (I) possibly can.
    I tried to sit through TPM about five times before I succeeded. Just kept falling asleep, didn't matter what time of the day it was.
    Nowadays I think a bit better of it, some parts makes me laugh so hard I almost trow up. Sadly, its not the parts intended to be funny......
     
  20. Atticus

    Atticus Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 31, 2002
    I liked this movie and didn't see anything wrong with it, It rejuvenated my Star Wars fandom to a whole new level.

    Another thing I like about it that I notice some people complain about is how it doesn't feel like a "Star Wars" movie. I like that it doesn't because the OT takes place in a time of civil war were the bad guys rule the galaxy. In TPM, none of this has happened yet so the mood is different. The galaxy is a better place (somewhat).
     
  21. yoshifett

    yoshifett Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2004
    That's amazing Bucky-Katt, I had the exact same experience. I watched the OT a week earlier, and when I watched TPM, I think it was the first time that I saw it as a true "Star Wars" film. The people who complain are missing the whole point of the film. Everything that is done in that movie is very intentional -- but that goes over some people's heads and they start talking about this line or that line, or bad acting, or how it's a kiddie movie. First of all, before ANH came out Lucas said that his movies were for KIDS. And as for the so-called "cheesy" acting, it it wasn't there, would it really be a star wars movie? I mean, come on, the camp of the OT is a great part of it's charm. It is by no means a perfect movie, but it is much better than people give it credit for, and deserves a spot in the Star Wars pantheon.
     
  22. kansasfan

    kansasfan Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2004
    1. Anikin. Why on gods green earth did they cast such an annoying no talent whiney little brat? He's almost as bad as Hayden.
    2. Jar Jar and the gungans. The Gungans weren't a bad idea really, it was the fact that they added "sa" onto every other word in thier vocabulary. The Gungan ruler was almost as bad as Jar Jar. He was obviously just put there for kids and family appeal. Jar Jar....well do I really need to say anything about Jar Jar.
    3. Storyline. Just thought it dragged in comparison to the other three.
    4. Duel sided saber.
    5. Two Headed Pod Racer Comentater.
    6. Special Effects. Not bad really, just not what I had come to expect from ILM. Man they really dropped the ball when they made the switch to CGI.
    8. Felt no real emotional connection with characters.
    9. No big SW moment.
    10. Not enough mystery set up around Darth Maul.Or his master.
    11. Felt too commercialized. Kind of like I Robot seemed to be. (I never did see I Robot but the preview screamed PTM at me.)
    12. CGI Yoda looks worse than a MUPPET!

    The good (may as well huh?)

    1. Liam (can't spell laste name) as Qui Gon.
    2. R2 and 3P0
    4. Death of Qui Gon (closest thing to emotion here)
    5. Anikin and mother are slaves.
    6. Pod Racing. Best thing in the whole freakin movie.
     
  23. dizfactor

    dizfactor Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2002
    What is wrong with TPM?

    what is right with TPM?

    for me, that's basically 1) two characters: Qui-Gon and Palpatine/Sidious, and 2) the lightsaber duel.

    pretty much everything else is either totally flat or actively terrible. certain aspects are even deeply offensive.

    I also remember back in 1999 when it came out, barely anyone was complaining about Jar Jar until it became trendy to say he is annoying and should be killed.

    what are you talking about? i was there at the midnight opening and EVERYONE was very vocally bitching IN THE THEATER about how crappy he was. people were screaming "shut the **** up!" every time he opened his mouth by the time we got to Tatooine. it has nothing to do with bad reviews or it being trendy to bash Jar Jar - the reaction was immediate and visceral.

    I can never understand why people complain about Jake Lloyd's acting. HE WAS 9 YEARS OLD. He didn't have the acting experience of his co-stars.

    that's no excuse. there are talented child actors. wasn't Haley Joel Osment considered for his role?
     
  24. DarthLazious

    DarthLazious Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2003
    Lets see here.

    1. Jar Jar Binks and
    2. Anakin played by Jake Lloyd.
     
  25. kansasfan

    kansasfan Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2004
    What happened to the acting in SW? All the trilogy actors were good. Now we get treated to the acting talents of Jake loyd, Hayden whatshisface, and whoever the hell plays Amididalla.
     
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