CT what is yoda good for?

Yoda is the grandmaster. He wouldn't be if he wasn't the most powerful, most wise and most experienced member of the Jedi Order.

 

All this is true. But this also means he is completely to blame for everything going to hell. He should have a sign on his desk that says, "Stop here, the buck does."

 

"Yoda! Huh! What is he good for?"

 

re: Anakin's Jedi career. "Induction! Then destruction! Who want's to die?!"

 

Really?

Yoda is the enemy of all mankind.
The thought of Yoda, bloooooows my mind.

 

Yoda! He ain't nothing but a heartbreaker......

(Next line, please)

 

Why is he to blame? What about personal accountability? The teacher can only teach, it is up to the student to learn from those teachings.

 

Having the entire Jedi order decay and be destroyed under his watch would seem to warrant some blame, yes?

 

He and Obi-Wan probably also share some blame for Anakin seeming like a worse person in AotC than TPM unless Anakin becoming pretty arrogant is to be considered inevitable.

 

I can't imagine it was Lucas's intent to assimilate centuries of politics into a trilogy of some reported depth and complexity in order to tell the audience that your society and the authorities trusted to have a duty of care are off the hook from questionable execution of that duty if they are duped by one Palpatine.

I would have thought that blaming only the head of evil regimes had been proven to be wholly inadequate attitude to history by now.

 

Well, I hate to disillusion you further, but yes that was the intent.

On politics.

One of the larger issues that surfaced in the telling of Anakin's fall to the dark side and his rise to becoming a corrupt figure was that of the fall of democracy at the hands of the very people who initially fought oppression.

"You have the personal issue of Anakin and his turn to the dark side, but then the children later bring him back to being a human being," Lucas says. "But the larger issue is that you've given up your democracy, and that the bad guys never took it -- it was handed to them. That theme was there 30 years ago which came out of the Vietnam War and Nixon wanting to change the rules so he could get a third term.

I'm a big history buff and I was really into Caesar at the time," Lucas recalls. "I always wanted to know why the Roman Senate gave Caesar's nephew a dictatorship after they had gotten rid of Caesar. Why after the revolution in France did they create an Emperor? Why did the Germans after they had a Democracy after World War I, turn it into a dictatorship? Those were my initial questions 30 years ago."

--George Lucas, Star Wars Homing Beacon #142.

"One of the issues in all of this is the bad guys think they’re good and Lord Sidious thinks he’s bringing peace to the galaxy because there is so much corruption and confusion and chaos going on, and now he’s going to be able to straighten everything out, which maybe true but the price the galaxy is going to have to pay for it is way too much."

--George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.

On Anakin's influence.

"I had all these hints that Palpatine had been helping Anakin. But I needed an explicit scene that actually spelled it out. And where you can see some of Anakin’s dialogue later on has come from Palpatine."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"In the original script, there were subtle inferences that there was some kind of relationship between Anakin and Palpatine. There was dialogue where Anakin said he thought Palpatine was a good Chancellor and not like other politicians, so it was obvious that he knew him. But when I saw the first cut of the movie, I realized that we needed to push that point harder. As it was, the inferences were a little bit too subtle. Although the relationship between Anakin and Palpatine doesn't really relate to this movie - it's more important to the next movie - I had to set that up because it was important in the overall arc of the story. So I wrote that little scene to show Palpatine's influence on Anakin and his role as a mentor."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

 

Nice snow job.None of that has anything to do with Yoda's responsibility. The clue is in the thread title. That's what we're discussing.

Yoda is not the senate. He;s not the people. He is the head of the council of the guardians of peace and justice.

One guy's will and one other's gullibility is a poor excuse for him and the Jedi failing to guard peace and justice.

 

The Jedi fail under Yoda because they only care about the so called Republic.

"I'm not in the business of freeing slaves." -- Qui-Gon. Official Jedi policy set by Yoda?

 

Being killed by a bunch of Clonetroopers isn't exactly his fault either. They were going to be used regardless of their involvement in the war. And it was in trying to prevent said war, that it spread out. If they did nothing while the Droid Army launched their attacks, they'd be negligent in their duties. If they waited for that attack and went on the defensive, it would be the same way.

If you blame Yoda, you need to blame Luke.

 

Did you know that 'War. What is it good for?' was the original title for War and Peace?

 

If we're talking about the OT, when was Luke the head of the council and responsibile for younglings initial training which he withheld from Anakin? When was Luke unable to detect that he was working for a Sith lord he was supposedly seeking?

Luke overcame what was holding him back from becoming a Jedi in the OT. What exactly does he need blamed for?

 

They're talking about the ST - in which Luke starts training a bunch of young Jedi, but one of his trainees kills them all and joins the First Order - just like Anakin joins the Sith and kills a bunch of Yoda's younglings.

The argument is that blaming Yoda for Vader is like blaming Luke for Kylo.

 

I think that's a discussion for another forum, but yes Luke should shoulder some of the blame. It appears that he does so.

Fortunately, his character has already generated a lot of authentic good will and encourages the audience to anticipate how he'll find a solution and redeem himself.

Don't forget also that Ben turning is a repercussion of Anakin turning.

 

Some training might be impossible to use on anyone who is not an infant:

Shatterpoint novel

I have no recollection of my infancy among the Korunnai; my earliest memory is of Yoda's kindly smile and enormous gentle eyes close above me. It is still vivid. I don't know how old I might have been, but I am certain I could not yet walk. Perhaps I was too young to even stand. In memory, I can see my plump infant's hands reaching up to tug at the white straggles of hair above Yoda's ears.
I recall squalling - shrieking like a wounded glowbat, as Yoda prefers to describe it - as some kind of toy, a rattle, it might have been, bobbed in the air just beyond my grasp. I recall how no amount of shouting, screaming, howling, or tears could draw that rattle one millimeter closer to my tiny fist. And I recall the instant I first reached for the toy without using my hands: how I could feel it hanging there, and I could feel how Yoda's mind supported it ... and a whisper of the Force began to hum in my ears.
My next lesson: Yoda had come to take the rattle away, and I - with my instinctive infant's selfishness - had refused to release it, holding on with both my hands and all I could summon of the Force. The rattle broke - to my infant's mind, a tragedy like the end of a world - for that had been Yoda's way of introducing the Jedi law of nonattachment: holding too tightly to what we love will destroy it.
And break our hearts as well.


If the newcanon's version of "youngling nonattachment training" is anything like the Legends version, Anakin being 9 might have made it out of the question to apply.