What is your current attitude toward Indiana Jones 4?

My thoughts exactly.

 

I thought it was a cool idea when I first got wind of it. I'm wondering what type of film it will be considering Ford is really up there in age now. I hope they don't rely on a succesor character like a Son or protege to fluff the gaps. But it was when Lucas said "We're basically going to do The Phantom Menace. ... People's expectations are way higher than you can deliver." that I realized that this is a bad idea. Lucas is already doing his pre-prep failure speech that he will later throw on fans if the film isn't good. If he's not concentrating on making a good film and he isn't confident, he should just leave it alone and sit down somewhere.

 

I thought it was a cool idea when I first got wind of it. I'm wondering what type of film it will be considering Ford is really up there in age now.

Ford turned 64 in July - which is not elderly by any means - but given the physical demands inherent to the Indiana Jones franchise, I think it would be in the actor?s best interest to do the film as soon as possible.

But it was when Lucas said "We're basically going to do The Phantom Menace. ... People's expectations are way higher than you can deliver." that I realized that this is a bad idea. Lucas is already doing his pre-prep failure speech that he will later throw on fans if the film isn't good.

I have little doubt that ? if the film does eventually get made ? Lucas will be held responsible should the movie fail to meet some hypothetical artistic standard, or under perform at the box-office. Of course, if Spielberg is to direct, and someone else is embellishing Lucas' story into a manageable narrative screenplay, then Lucas cannot be held solely responsible for the final product. Conversely, if the picture happens to be very good or even great, then I?m sure most of the accolades will be directed towards Spielberg and/or some of his more immediate collaborators.

If he's not concentrating on making a good film and he isn't confident, he should just leave it alone and sit down somewhere.

I agree with you for the most part, although the 'expectation' issue is unavoidable, particularly since we are dealing with an immensely popular motion picture franchise.

One of the problems with trying to revisit a hugely successful commercial enterprise such as Indiana Jones is that it is nearly impossible to re-attain or even surpass the artistry and immediate visceral rush of the first film (in this case, "Raiders of the Lost Ark"), assuming that similar stylistic and narrative material is once again being utilized. One of the strengths of "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom" was that it drew from a somewhat different stylistic reserve than that of its predecessor; while "Doom" didn?t surpass the purity and wonder of 1981 picture, it did manage to harness the underlying aesthetic template employed in "Raiders," and fasten it to a disparate sort of pulp derivation, the convergence of which ultimately generated a uniquely satisfying energy or dynamism.

Given the general dissatisfaction with "Temple of Doom" (I am including Lucas and Spielberg among those frustrated with the film), its sequel, "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade," while a great entertainment in its own right, played much like a retread or bookend to the first film ? similar material played well, but in the same key. Apart from the masterstroke of casting Sean Connery as Indy?s father ? which inspires some of the film?s most memorable moments as the Joneses squabble amidst chaos ? and the ingenious opening set piece (which introduces us to Indy as a youth), the film revisits familiar territory, deliberately reconfiguring several of the scenarios initially exploited in "Raiders," and then adding a bit of variation to make the obligatory action scenes more dynamic; since the material was so precisely realized to begin with, I?m not sure it can be topped, which explains ? for me ? one of the marginally underwhelming aspects of "Last Crusade."

This leads us to the question of whether or not Spielberg and Lucas should choose to pursue extending the franchise; based on my delineated columns of reasoning, I don?t see why they shouldn?t, especially if they plan to manipulate the material in a slightly more unique manner, infusing it with a different type of energy. To state the obvious: the picture might work and it might not, but in either case the filmmakers need to commit themselves to a decision and move on.

 

I think it will be as good a movie as the others. Lucas has used a lot of time to get the screenplay right and Spielberg will deliver the goods. The thing is, it really needs to be a better movie than the first three in order to be a success. So it needs to have a better and more interesting story as well as incredible dialogue and supporting actors. Then it will be a worthy addition to the saga IMO, and worth waiting all those years for.

 

Good post, Tyranus. Those are some good points and another way of looking at that issue.

I don't believe every fan is some unpleasable super-geek who goes into these films with ridiculous expectations. I think a lot of people including myself just expect to be entertained and the excitement comes from loving, and being familiar, with the existing world the films are set in. I was sure the prequels were going to be epic considering the existing story, the already loved and familiar characters, and a new age of effects helmed by Lucas. In order for me to see Phantom as lack luster based on high expectations, by high expectations would have had to be set to insane proportions. I'd have to be crazy for that to be the reason. Poeple deserve more credit than that. All I ask of a new Indy film, or any other revisited franchise expansion, at the very least, just enetertain. There are situations and defined character to the Indy films, all of them- So, to make a new film in it's continuation would undoubtedly have to embody these Indy-style elements even while crossing into new territory. Thats what I look forward to and thats at the very lowest and humble of an expectation. I'm looking for something thats basically garanteed.

Indiana Jones4 has something very powerful on it's side: Even though it is a sequel, it isn't bound by a single storyline continued from it's previous episodes. Each adventure is new and even makes it possible for the creators to bring back storylines and even characters from previous films if they wanted. You don't have the Matrix-Prequel curse here. There's nothing that SHOULD happen or anything that fans are waiting to see revealed. It's another Indy adventure seperate from his other travels where the writers have free riegn to be daring and creative. I wonder will Conery make an appearance.

 

Anyone who thinks that TPM was a bad movie, when compared with the other Star Wars movies, is making an effort to dislike it. That person will probably make just as much effort to dislike Indy4.

 

i just hope it dosent completely ruin the others. I think lucas and spielberg need to accept that its a great trilogy and just leave it alone without the need to "complete" everything. but i'll watch it nonetheless.

 

Those are pretty bold statements. ANYONE who thinks TPM is a bad movie is making an effort to? How insulting. I can't speak for anyone else, but I went to see TPM excited in a way I can't discribe. This film, of all films I'd ever seen, would be one that I am going to see with the unspoken intent of loving it. Making an effort to dislike it is a ludicrous statement and even more ridiculous action. I don't go to see movies hoping I won't like them and anyone who does may have some sort of mental problem. I was disappointed by TPM because it was something I WANTED to enjoy. If there is an Indy4 movie released I will buy a ticket with the intent to enjoy myself. Anyone saying otherwise has a whole lotta nerve.

 

Only someone making an effort to be insulted would be insulted by that. I am seeing a pattern here, Neo. You seem to make a lot of efforts to be offended by things that are not personal. Do you also think that George Lucas violated your childhood?

Sounds like you set that movie up to unbelievable expectations, and that your reaction to it was doomed to be a major disappointment. You will do the same for Indy4. You will ruin it before you see it, just as you did with TPM.

It is like what people expect from sex before they have it... you think "Oh, this is going to be the greatest thing ever" and then, for most people, the first time is kind of... underwhelming, because the expectations were too high. Now, since you can't have had that kind of experience (and what Lucas-raped-my-childhood fangirl could?) you will just have to live with your emotional melodrama surrounding TPM, and what will be Indy4.

 

Hell, even Lucas thinks Indy 4 would face TPM-like buildup and backlash by sheer virtue of its own existence and history, and he's probably right.

(Note that I still predict the movie will not happen)


Rick McCallum loves you!

 

"Only someone making an effort to be insulted would be insulted by that."

Huh? Your statement makes no sense. You said ANYONE, meaning if you thought TPM was less than good the reason you believed that is because you didn't want it to be good. That is most definitely an insult considering someone with that logic would have to be crazy, extremely negative, or both. I'm willing to bet that all STAR WARS fans want to like STAR WARS movies and that outlook is a positive one. If I said ANYONE who liked TPM forced themselves to like it, or are in denial that it was bad, would that NOT be an insult? Of course it would be, just like the statement made against ANYONE who didn't think it was good.

"I am seeing a pattern here, Neo. You seem to make a lot of efforts to be offended by things that are not personal. Do you also think that George Lucas violated your childhood?"

Back your observations of a "pattern" by quoting me. We can then decipher what insults are and are not- but as we just discovered, you can't identify even an obvious one. And far as George Lucas "violating" my childhood, the question is absurd. George Lucas is in no position to do anything to my childhood which is now over with. Does he have a time machine and my address? I believe the whole childhood raping thing was constructed by prequel and alteration supporters but it was a phraze not used by people who actually had dislikes of the new films and OT alterations. It's like a myth or at best something someone would say jokingly. So, um, no.

"Sounds like you set that movie up to unbelievable expectations, and that your reaction to it was doomed to be a major disappointment. You will do the same for Indy4. You will ruin it before you see it, just as you did with TPM."

"Unbelievable expectations"? You haven't been paying attention. Allow me to quote myself: "In order for me to see Phantom as lack luster based on high expectations, my high expectations would have had to be set to insane proportions. I'd have to be crazy for that to be the reason. Poeple deserve more credit than that. All I ask of a new Indy film, or any other revisited franchise expansion, at the very least, just enetertain. There are situations and defined character to the Indy films, all of them- So, to make a new film in it's continuation would undoubtedly have to embody these Indy-style elements even while crossing into new territory. Thats what I look forward to and thats at the very lowest and humble of an expectation." And you have a lot of nerve telling someone something like "You will ruin it before you see it, just as you did with TPM" with absolutely no facts to support the insulting claim. Yep, I'm insulted by people telling me how I think or what I'm going to do. For me to tell you why I'm not crazy about TPM doesnt require me to make any evaluations of YOU, so why when expressing yourself on these matters do you have to make personal reference to me? It is quite barbaric in nature.

"It is like what people expect from sex before they have it... you think "Oh, this is going to be the greatest thing ever" and then, for most people, the first time is kind of... underwhelming, because the expectations were too high. Now, since you can't have had that kind of experience (and what Lucas-raped-my-childhood fangirl could?) you will just have to live with your emotional melodrama surrounding TPM, and what will be Indy4."

"Lucas-raped-my-childhood fangirl"? Oh, now were just being outright disrespectful. "Emotional melodrama"? Strange, it is you who are mad about this. I brought TPM up because Lucas said something about it in conjuction with Indiana Jones. It sounds like you don't like TPM yourself and you hate to be reminded of how awful it is. Insulting me and being nasty isn't going to change that. And I'm not even going to touch the whole "what people expect from sex" thing. Aparently you think you know what peoples personal experiences are and how they feel about things and your sadly mistaken.

If you stop now we'l

 

Let's get on with it!


-TheMcGuffin (after all, I'm only here to advance the story)

 

Its going to rock, thats for sure, just probably not as hard as the origial 3. If it gets made of course...

 

The last I heard, Harrison has said that its a definate go. I don't know if thats changed or not. The three of them (Lucas, Ford and Steven) finally agreed on a script. Me personally, I can't wait, IMHO there are not that many great movies being made in Hollywood these days and an Indiana Jones movie is certainly going to be great. I voted for option 2 BTW.


~Piper

 

I would love for there to be another Indiana Jones film, so long as it was made with all the care, energy, and enthusiasm as the first three. The fact is that as much as I love and enjoy Temple of Doom and Last Crusade, they never reached the same level of excitement as Raiders. Never. It doesn't mean they weren't great films, they're all favorites of mine, but there is only one Raiders of the Lost Ark, and everything else is wannabe.

 

Before I respond to this, I just want to point out how your entire response to me is based on the classic flamewar tactic of DCDDCR (discount, challenge, discount, deflate, challenge, repeat). It is only used by people who have had a nerve hit and are about to lose an argument... you are five seconds from calling me a Nazi. You are only impressing yourself.

Lucas compared it to TPM because he knows Indy4 cannot live up to your childish expectations no matter how good it may end up. You will ruin it for yourself and then try to get everyone on the Internet to agree with you by posting about it 20,000 times.


Removed unnecessary portions. We will watch your future career with great interest.

 

I'm in the "it's not going to get made" boat.

 

Perhaps I should mention in light of Sweiit's current rekindling of discussion with Neo that a mod is watching. Just in case the purple name that started the thread isn't flashy enough for ya.



Rick McCallum loves you!

 

I don´t really care one way or other. Probably better - which really isn´t hard to accomplish - than the films in which Harrison Ford has played in this millennium. If it gets done, that is. And if it gets done, I will go and watch it, but I will not except anything special.

 

i agree 100%, but to be honest i hope he doesn't make Indy 4.

i was excited at first and now i'm just hoping they don't bother, ford is 64, to the person who said that's not elderly you're wrong.

64 is what we call 'early old age', and that is not what i want to see in an indiana jones film.

it would be best to hand the character to a different actor and do a full trilogy, since that won't happen i hope it's not made at all.

 

Five minutes from calling you a Nazi? Flame war tactics and DCDDCR? I have no clue of what your talking about. You keep making these accussations but they aren't based on anything I've said. Your CLEARLY making stuff up. I've said nothing that would indicate being on the verge of calling you a Nazi, you say I have "childish expectations" of this movie which is also baseless babble, you tell me HOW i'm going to recieve the film and ruin it for myself and post about it "20,000 times". You arent making any sense. You cant even quote me to back up any of that stuff you just said. The thread asked what our current thoughts were on a new Indy film and I stated mine without involving any other poster. You decided to get personal because of your veiws of TPM and now your posting lies and making baseless assumptions that have nothing to do with Indy4. When it comes to these films, we have no argument. My opinion is irrefutable and cannot be argued. When someones says something about a film that you dont agree with, just say why you disagree, dont attack them personally. It doesnt make you right no matter how mad you get or how many lies you tell.

 

This film hasn't been "green-lighted", has it? I don't think the saga needs anymore additons.

 

George Lucas was on the Yahoo home page yesterday talking about the SW cartoon and mentioned Indy4. It sounds like the only thing left is choosing a script. I wonder does that mean there are variations already complete.

 

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