What is your denomination?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Obi-Zahn Kenobi, Dec 30, 2001.

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  1. ByzantineWampa Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2001
    My denomination is Byzantine Catholic.

    Innocent III is absolutely correct. The Creeds are the foundation of the Church, and they sum up the total belief in which each and every true Christian should believe concerning the Holy Trinity.

    The Bible is obviously extremely important, a living icon of the Divine Revelation of the Trinity, but a great deal of emphasis must be put on the Creeds.

    However, as for many Christians who put their total reliance on the Bible alone and disavow the Creeds and the Holy Wisdom of the Church Fathers, as well as the interpretation of the Church though Ecumenical Council and current day Clergy, are fooling themselves into a deadly sense of security in their own false interpretation of the Holy Scriptures.

    The Church ALONE has the authority, responsibility, and privilege to interpret the Bible. This is clearly seen with the Nicene and Apostles Creeds, as well as Church actions even unto today.

    People who have the ego, the utter audacity and false piety to believe that they can interpret the Holy Word of God are fools, and the disavowing of the Creeds, as well as the Ecumenical Councils of the Church, is grounding for NOT being considered a member of the Holy Immaculate Body of Jesus Christ, The Church.
  2. keiran_helcyan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 1999
    star 4
    Byzantine Catholic? Is that another name for Eastern Orthodox? Or just another branch of Roman Catholicism?
  3. Ransom Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2001
    star 3
    I follow Mark Twain (figuratively, of course), who said that we have just enough religion to make us hate each other, but not enough to make us love each other.

    This thread is a living testament to that.


    What is the point of fighting over a label? It's the worst kind of semantic nonsense. I'm not trivializing the theological disagreements. They are deep and significant, and probably irreconciliable. What I'm saying is that there is nothing to gain by fighting over the definition of "Christian." Some (or all?) of the different religious denominations are wrong -- appending or a removing a particular label does not affect the truth of the belief. Fighting over labels is just an indirect way to fight about the truth of the beliefs. If you wish to do that, do it directly.

  4. GreedoCMZ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 1999
    star 4
    Yep, that's what I'm saying. If I can say, "There may be some differences in our belief systems but I still respect you as a fellow Christian," it just cracks me up or bemuses or bewilders me or confuses me that the same respect cannot be reciprocated. I won't feel any more validated as a Christian if InnocentIII chooses to affix that label to me.
  5. Coolguy4522 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    I don't need to be validated by anyone either. I just think that the false notions should be disembled and shown the truth. Now BC, you obviously don't understand anything about The Church of Jesus Christ, and if you did, you would know that we belive that the true church of Christ was lost soon after he died. This means that we don't belive that the people who wrote the Creeds were anything but trying to make sense of the Bible. We don't claim to be part of your church, which is already divided enouph, rather, we simply proclaim that we belive in Christ and his sacrifice. Why should anything more be attached to being a "Christian." Perhaps you should make up a new word like "TrinityanrianChristain" or some such to differentiate between the two, as apparently you must.

    BTW, the reason I write this is not to inform the one calling me(or not calling me) something, but rather to inform anybody else that reads this. I couldn't care less what InnocentIII thinks.
  6. InnocentIII Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 1
    Byzantine Catholicism is a sect of Catholicism. Roman Catholicism is by far the largest sect of Catholicism, but there are a few others, like Byzantine and Ukrainian. They are mostly made up of Eastern Orthodox types who have rejoined into communion with the Holy Mother Church in Rome.
  7. Cailina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 4
    "To be tolerant of religions and cults that promote a sinful wicked lifestyle, would create a conflict of interest and do the example of Christ and God's followers a disservice."

    Would you please explain to me what aspects of Wicca promote a sinful and wicked lifestyle?

    "2 Chronicles 33:5-7 Also he caused his sons to pass through the fire in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom; he practiced soothsaying, used witchcraft and sorcery, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke Him to anger."

    That quote refers to the definition of witchcraft which is similar to sorcery...not the Witchcraft that some Wiccans practice.

    "Galatians 5:19-21
    Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

    Sorcery is not the same thing as the Witchcraft that some Wiccans practice.

    Also Wylding there is an error in the definition of Witchcraft in the Merriem-Webster dictionary. Wiccans will tell you that Wicca is not the definition of WitchCraft. Some but not all Wiccans are Witches and some but not all Witches are Wiccans. You don't have to be a Witch to be Wiccan and vice versa.

    Wicca is not the same as the witchcraft warned about in the bible becuase they do not practice sorcery at all nor are they necessarily even witches.

    There are also some things with the "definition" of Wicca which are not accurate but I don't have time to go into them now.

    "If I can say, 'There may be some differences in our belief systems but I still respect you as a fellow Christian,' it just cracks me up or bemuses or bewilders me or confuses me that the same respect cannot be reciprocated."

    How about if I say, "There are differences in our belief systems but I respect you as a fellow human being"? Will I get the same respect reciprocated.
  8. GreedoCMZ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 1999
    star 4
  9. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 5
    Callina, you have asked some interesting things. Since you have asked for my personal opinion I will spare you nothing :)

    Would you please explain to me what aspects of Wicca promote a sinful and wicked lifestyle?

    Sure I'll explain that. In fact, since you asked my personal opinion, I will explain to you how any lifestyle--including a "Christian," lifestyle could be wicked and sinful. To not be wicked and sinful, one must follow the commands of God and know what he requires. To do this we must go to the best source we have avaliable, which in my case is the bible:


    Deuteronomy 10:12-21

    "And now, Israel, what does the LORD your God require of you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all His ways and to love Him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and to keep the commandments of the LORD and His statutes which I command you today for your good? Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to the LORD your God, also the earth with all that is in it. The LORD delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day. Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and be stiff-necked no longer. For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe. He administers justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the stranger, giving him food and clothing. Therefore love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. You shall fear the LORD your God; you shall serve Him, and to Him you shall hold fast, and take oaths in His name. He is your praise, and He is your God, who has done for you these great and awesome things which your eyes have seen."


    Pretty straight forward, unless you don't know the ten commandments that God gave to man:

    Exodus 20:1-17

    'And God spoke all these words, saying:
    "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
    "You shall have no other gods before Me.
    "You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
    "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
    "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
    "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you.
    "You shall not murder.
    "You shall not commit adultery.
    "You shall not steal.
    "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
    "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's."'


    Now some say that we are no longer under the law, but rather Christ came to destroy our need to follow the law. This is not true:

    Matthew 5:16-18 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."

    Chronicles 33:5-7 Also he ca
  10. Wedges_Wingman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 11, 2001
    star 2
  11. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 5
    I consider myself a Christian with some Buddhist, Taoist, and Kriya Yogic beliefs mixed in here and there.
  12. No blasters! Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2000
    star 4
    "The Church ALONE has the authority, responsibility, and privilege to interpret the Bible. This is clearly seen with the Nicene and Apostles Creeds, as well as Church actions even unto today."

    Which church? Not mine. We seek understanding through personal interpretation.


    "People who have the ego, the utter audacity and false piety to believe that they can interpret the Holy Word of God are fools, and the disavowing of the Creeds, as well as the Ecumenical Councils of the Church, is grounding for NOT being considered a member of the Holy Immaculate Body of Jesus Christ, The Church."

    Oh, that church.

    Well, I think since we all have brains, free will and a heart, then it's up to us to read, interpret and understand the world and our own spirituality. I don't consider such individuals "fools", but rather, seekers.

    At any rate, I try not to bash anyone else's spiritual beliefs since they are as keenly felt as my own and we don't *know* what the real story is, do we?
  13. InnocentIII Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 1
    "Comparing a Wiccan to a murderer? What a tool."

    I would consider Wiccans muderers of souls.

    "Which church? Not mine. We seek understanding through personal interpretation. "

    I'm sorry. Churches like yours lead to heresies and people going to Hell. And when someone says Church, it's usually about the Catholic Church. :) Or else, it should be.
  14. The Musical Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 1999
    star 5
    I'm a Presbyterian (PCUSA), although I'm a little loathe to jump in this, I guess I will.

    First of all, considering a practicing Christian, I can't really understand all this flaming and name-calling. For instance, I'm going to use the example of Wiccan. If I offend someone, please let me know and I will apologize and clarify, because I really don't want to flame or offend. I don't believe in the Wiccan beliefs. That's probably apparent by the fact I consider myself a Christian. However, since Christians are not supposed to judge (I can find the Biblical references if someone requests them, though not at this exact moment), I don't think it is my job to thus declare them workers of Satan or anything of that sort. It's not my responsibility to condemn them. If a person who practices Wiccan is a just and moral person, I would personally like to commend them, because I know many Christians who would not fit under those catagories! My personal method of evangelism is to discuss my beliefs evenly at such times as will serve a good purpose and to live my life as close to my beliefs as I can. However, I refuse to play God and decide who is and isn't going to Heaven by flaming other people. It only hurts feelings and alienates other people from Christianity.

    However, I am perfectly content to discuss doctrines of certain denominations and religions, on the understanding that I don't like certain ideas, not types of people.
  15. keiran_helcyan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 1999
    star 4
    "However, since Christians are not supposed to judge (I can find the Biblical references if someone requests them, though not at this exact moment)"

    Matthew 7 1-5 (NIV)
    "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

    A very good passage.
  16. Coolguy4522 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    You cannot judge someone by judging them in the eternal perspective. You cannot judge someone by saying "All wiccans are going to Hell", but you can judge someone by saying, "those wiccans are a bunch of nuts and I don't want to hang out with them" There is a difference.

    Edit: I am not saying that the view that they are nuts is correct, I am just stating that can be your personal view and judge them like that. Everyone has a right to have stupid opinions, even anti-semitic nazis.
  17. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    "Churches like yours lead to heresies and people going to Hell."

    Innocent, unless you want to tell me that God came down to you personally and told you that your view of Him is the right one, then anyone else's guess about Him/Her are as good as yours.

    Coolguy: If I said-- "All Jews are [insert Jewish slur here] and I don't want to hang out with them," how would you react?
  18. Cailina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 4
    "Note that the words witchcraft and sorcery are seperated by the conjuction 'and.' This denotes that they are treated as seperate and complete entities and are thus different."
    Yes but you have to decide which meaning of a word your going to use. In this instance the definition which makes sense is the one which is similar to sorcery...otherwise praying would also be a sin(see next comment).

    "Also, I believe, that Wicca does place emphasis on Gaia as the Goddess."
    It depends. Not all Wiccans believe in the same form of the divine. Some Wiccans follow a God which is identicle to the Christian God.

    "I believe that Wicca makes use of spells. This would be considered by some as sorcery."
    In that case than prayer is sorcery as well. And second please, please, use the right term. Witches practice Magick but all Magick is, is elaborate prayer. Nothing more.

    "I believe that wicca does engage in aspects of astrology which is divination by means of the stars. Divination of any kind is warned against in the bible and forbidden to those who would follow the Diviner of diviners."
    Some Witches use divination, others do not. Wiccans do not unless they are also Witches.

    "I lament your decision to turn away from the God of gods, but that is your choice and I love you as a potential intiate."
    It's interesting how you automatically assume that I'm not Christian...I don't recall saying so(at least not in this thread) but either way it doesn't matter. For that matter being forced to attend Catholic religion classes for many years is what made me into an atheist for most of my life. I do not think that Christianity is wrong anymore however it is not a style of worship I am comfortable with.

    "...or emphasizes the things of creation over the Creator of all"

    Wiccans do not...they think that they are one and the same.
  19. LittleLadyVader Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2000
    star 4
    I have no problem with Wicca. I think its just another way to worship God. I believe that all religions serve God and that He has many names. My only problem is when churches hurt its members or nonmembers.
  20. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    I am a gnostic, a knower
  21. ZorbatheJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2000
    star 3
    LittleLadyVader
    "no ones a true Christian except the Catholics. Its the only church that can trace itself back to Jesus."

    Not True. The ONLY Church that can trace itself back to Jesus and His disciples, is the Eastern Orthodox Church. The Catholic church split from the Orthodox Church.

    I'm part of the Greek Orthodox Church
  22. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    really, you are greek, with a name like zorba the jedi, i never would have guessed :p
    yassou
  23. The Musical Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 1999
    star 5
    I'm thrilled to know you have now just essentially nullified my Christianity.
  24. No blasters! Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2000
    star 4
    "Churches like yours lead to heresies and people going to Hell"

    //rolleyes

    That's perhaps the funniest thing I've heard today.
  25. The Musical Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 1999
    star 5
    Coolguy, so essentially you're saying it's a completely okay and somewhat Christian thing to do to say something to the effect of "All green-colored people are nuts"? Granted, I think its acceptabled to make statements along the lines of I think murder is wrong. However, I still think saying something like my first comment is judging other people. I'd rather leave that God in any form. I've got enough to worry about with my own actions, doing that which I know is wrong and don't want to do. Paul was completely correct (at least about me) when he said that.
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