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Senate What makes a good, or even 'the best', country?

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ender Sai, Oct 26, 2016.

  1. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    So, I was alerted to this by our own Pontifex Minimus, GrandAdmiralJello, to this list:

    http://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/overall-full-list

    Seeing Ze Germans at #1 didn't surprise, but seeing the US at #4 did. Not just because of the whole Latinx" thing, but because the metrics used weighted military and economic might quite highly. So this allowed the US to overcome metrics that should be crippling, like openness for business, to rise to 4th.

    But it got me thinking - what exactly are the metrics for a good or great or even "best" country?

    Does it matter if your country's businesspeople are good at doing business if the profits don't trickle down?

    Does it matter if your military can go anywhere, if your citizens rarely if ever do?

    Does it matter if you're a crossroads for culture, if you dub all media into German over using subtitles?

    etc etc.

    Accepting the answer is probably still somewhere in Europe, maybe even still Germany, can we find an agreed list of say 10-15 criteria that we think makes for a good country that we can then use to assess, objectively against the criteria, what country looks most favourable?

    The metrics I would use are:

    1. How well does the country reward risk takers in business?
    2. How well does the country ensure reasonable and sustainable distribution of wealth?
    3. How often does the country take leadership on topical issues in a way that inspires others to act?
    4. How happy are its people?
    5. How accessible, affordable, and professional is their healthcare?

    Feel free to flesh out some more.
     
  2. hudzu

    hudzu Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 1, 2003
  3. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Culture (i.e. contemporary) and heritage (past, of course) are the metrics they should have rated the highest.

    The top countries on those lists were:

    Culture:
    1. France
    2. Italy
    3. USA

    Heritage:
    1. Italy
    2. France
    3. Spain

    So there you have it. Italy, France, Spain, USA. The best countries. End thread.
     
    slightly_unhinged likes this.
  4. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Anything that has me in it, should be very high on the list. Also President Obama.
     
  5. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Iello is this in response to the pontifex comment?
     
  6. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

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    Aug 16, 2002
    Nation-states are dumb.
     
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  7. seventhbeacon

    seventhbeacon Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2015
    I country without waffles is a country not worth having.

    So, probably Belgium.
     
  8. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Said the HRE.
     
  9. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    Iello, how do you define culture?

    For example, I would argue multiculturalism should be weighted heavily in a positive, where as melting pot assimilation should be weight negatively. So even though France and America have a diverse ethnic makeup, excellent museums and galleries and generally appreciate the arts and their own history, they'd be marked down for assimilationist culture.

    But, keen to hear your thoughts.
     
  10. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Well, how I define culture is not necessarily how the survey defined culture. If you click on the culture page, you'll see how they defined culture:

    And then they took a survey with respect to those categories, and obtained the following results:

     
  11. DebonaireNerd

    DebonaireNerd Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2012
    I suppose it could be partly measured by how effectively a country balances the act of preserving their traditions while also keeping up to date with the contemporary changes in society. The switch in our country from Abbott to Turnbull is a worthy example because out of those two Prime Ministers, the majority of Australian voters gravitate toward the latter. While Turnbull takes a more traditional view toward the economy, he is certainly a more socially progressive Prime Minister. Abbott conversely was pro-Australia in that he loved the country, but only insofar as being a bold vision of yesteryear. Turnbull adores the traditions of Australian culture while recognising the need for a shift to celebrate what makes Australia a liberal democracy.

    Then you look at a country like America which is so bound to particular aspects of its constitution and bill of rights that it can curtail its ability to progress in certain areas.
     
  12. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Well, if I look at culture I'd look at:

    * Assimilation v multicultural (so, - for US
    * Penetration of culture globally (so, + for US)
    * Veneration of the fine arts in culture (net + for US, though in major, major cities)
    * Diversity of cultural pursuits
    * Tolerance of different cultures
    * Number of world class opera houses, symphonic halls, art galleries, and museums

    Among other things.
     
  13. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    The part about cultural traditions actually falls into the heritage category. I'd agree it's odd that things like diversity, tolerance, etc. aren't comprehended under culture (it seems they're going for a narrower conception of culture in terms of influence/fashionable and high culture). It's weirder yet, that tolerance isn't anywhere in there at all.

    Also, treating assimilation vs multiculturalism as an axis is very normative :p
     
  14. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    Yes, but I wanted the veneer of legitimacy when trying to say "lol @ assimilation"
     
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  15. DebonaireNerd

    DebonaireNerd Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2012
    How do you measure the happiness of its people? Especially in Australia where a few of the elections have resulted in hung Parliaments?
     
  16. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    Hey, those new shiny graphs over at Vox indicate that the US method of multiculturalism is the best -- and we actually like our melting pot, as opposed to Europeans who are apparently racist and xenophobic butts. :p

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Do you want time to include context there, and underlying assumptions dp4m?
     
  18. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
  19. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

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    Nov 8, 2001
    No, I'm good with my picture saying a thousand words, thanks.
     
  20. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Self-conscious positioning contrary to the more mainstream inclinations of the genre and a lyrical reaffirmation of its more rebellious roots rather than a blasé adherence to conservative social mores. I'd cite Willie Nelson as the poster child, honestly.






    ... Wait.
     
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  21. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001

    Ok so you're just here to score silly points for a system you're exposed enough to know is inherently flawed. Got it.


    http://worldhappiness.report/
     
  22. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

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    Aug 18, 2002
    the greatest nation will be the united anthropolitan confederation of soviet socialist republics, for only such an entity will be capable of uniting humanity in common purpose against the extraterrestrial menace
     
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  23. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001

    *republiks

    All hail future president:

    [​IMG]
     
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  24. DebonaireNerd

    DebonaireNerd Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2012

    Cheers.
     
  25. slightly_unhinged

    slightly_unhinged Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 28, 2014
    The thing is, so much of what makes a country a good place to be doesn't lend itself to these kind of metrics. I'd imagine the UK would come out reasonably well in terms of culture. We have some of the finest museums and galleries in the world (most of which don't charge for entry), the Royal Shakespeare Company, some good orchestras etc. but culture isn't valued here which negates a lot of that in terms of this being a good place to live.

    It's the same with education (which I'd add to your list, Ender Sai). Everyone gets an education up to age 16, we have Cambridge, Oxford, some of the London colleges, Edinburgh and St Andrews, but ever since we adopted the notion of a degree having a 'market value' the country has been a less salubrious place to live. We also don't see value in non-academic education, unlike Denmark and Germany who are richer for it.

    Work-life balance might be another one to add to the list, by the way. How much paid vacation do people get? How many hours to people work each week? Maybe even what proportion of the population have a passport/spend time overseas?