ST What mistakes that TLJ made should episode 9 avoid?

Definitely the humor. This isn't a Marvel film. Humor is fine, but when you overdue it, there's an issue. I think many here can agree on that.

Also, I hope I got the title right. Wasn't sure how to word it.

 

I liked the humour, but I think I would tone it down a little for 9. I think JJ probably would have done regardless of any reaction to TLJ.

 

Damn, I wish I could change the title to "What are the mistakes that TLJ made that episode 9 should avoid?" Would be more grammatically correct. Or at least flow better.

 

Things that are too late to do, but should have been done earlier.
1.) The overall plot and character arcs for the trilogy should have been plotted out by Kathleen Kennedy or the Story Group. This was obviously not done, and as a result there is a huge pile up of plot threads created by J.J. Abrams that were discarded or taken in unsatisfactory directions.
2.) Give the actors of the Original Trilogy characters the right of refusal (i.e. the ability to tell the director and writers: No, my character wouldn't do that, try again). This may have saved The Last Jedi from igniting the fanbase with it'd depiction of Luke Skywalker.

Things that can be done to avoid the mistakes of Episode VIII.
1.) Thematically return to the fundamental themes of Star Wars: destiny, legacy, lineage, fate, morality, light and darkness, nobility, heroism, redemption, and cyclical history. This means that they should have dumped the 'kill the past' theme of The Last Jedi as well as return to the fundamental core of the Skywalker Saga - that it's a family drama about the Skywalker family.
2.) Rey needs to suffer setbacks and grow as a character. This means she needs to struggle. She also would have done well to get an actual teacher and mentor out of Luke Skywalker... alas, that is not to be. She needs to make mistakes and have failures in order to rise beyond it.
3.) I would also heavily suggest reversing the reveal from The Last Jedi - "No one is from nowhere" and no one is nobody. While it is a big galaxy the themes of legacy, lineage, and destiny that are a major thematic part of the Star Wars Saga require the protagonist to be part of a lineage and have a legacy. That means that Rey has to be someone.
4.) Luke Skywalker must return to his core characterization from the Original Trilogy. If this doesn't happen fans of Luke Skywalker will forever reject the sequel trilogy. This will require Luke to be a very active and engaged Force Ghost, unless they decided to somehow have Luke return from the netherworld of the Force and physically manifest himself.

 

I honestly dont know how you bring back Luke in 9 without completely ruining/destroying all of force canon. It would be like going to heaven and bringing someone back from the dead. I think that mistake can no longer be fixed. The only hope to Luke fans now is to give Mark an anthology film between 6 and 7 or even better do a Luke centric film set between ANH and Empire.

 

1. Tone down the humor

2. Stop using phasma or at least stop promoting her story as being anywhere near as interesting as the main cast. Two movies in, she's basically the character that exists to give finn something to do.

3. If the force plot is more interesting, don't find excuses to go back to the resistance plot. So many times during TLJ i really wished they just stayed with Luke/Rey/Kylo.

 

Honestly, the biggest mistake was shoving the film out the door in two years. The script was finished before the world had even seen TFA, and while it was apparently worked on afterwards, I'm not sure how much of a difference that really made. The three year cycle seems pretty necessary. 9 has six months to get a script before shooting, and I'm not really that confident it'll deliver. Disney/Lucasfilm have been rushing these films into production, and it shows.

 

I think they're rushing all the films in order to annualize the franchise.

Why I used to be pretty excited with this development, looking at TLJ, one wonders if what they needed most was more time.

 

I completely agree; a little less forced humor. JJ really didn't over do it in "The Force Awakens" I'm sure JJ knows the pressure he'll be under.

 

Rey s#ck at being Chewbacca's wingman. Our wookie needs an on-screen partner who can better make up for his lack of speech.
(to be fair, that was TFA's fault to begin with)

I'd say Finn would be a great tag-team partner, although i could see it work with Rose too. Show the wookie some love !

 

I fundamentally disagree with the lineage and fate nonsense. IMO, Star Wars went off the trails a bit when they focused too much on that. IMO, they are in the middle of correcting that. To me, Star Wars is fundamentally about hope and compassion.... and some really cool pew-pews!

 

I liked JJ’s humor in TFA so I’m not too worried about the humor in 9. His humor felt like Star Wars humor from the past if that makes sense. RJ’s use of humor, I didn’t hate it, but I prefer JJ’s.

Things I hope they fix
1. I know RJ really wanted to introduce new characters to make the world seem bigger, but this was one of the weak Points of the movie for me. The movie should have focuses on Rey/Luke/Kylo more. They were the interesting parts

2. Let Rey train. While I do think Rey got some flaws in this film (very naive and reckless causing her to get tortered and almost killed). I really want to see her training or at least give the story a time jump and make it very obvious that she has been working toward her abilities. I love this character I want to see some of her growth on screen and not just in books and off screen.

3. Pacing. This has a lot to do with all the different character plots. I loved the pacing of TFA though so I’m not worried about this with JJ.

4. Explain the forces evolvation. We have different force powers in TLJ and the idea that the force can rise people up in urgency. I am totally okay with new force power discoveries, but I would really like to hear an explanation, maybe from a force ghost, about it.

 

It's already been suggested by GL as far back as the early draft of ROTJ, so it's not something new. It would be the only way left to show Luke had surpassed what Yoda and Obi-Wan had achieved but then it looks like Yoda may have already found a way back from the netherworld, if being able to physically interact with Luke and smacking him on head, even the blue hue disappeared indicating he was flesh again.

 

And I fundamentally disagree with you as I view Star Wars as an old fashioned mythic story akin to King Arthur. It is a medieval fantasy story set in space. We have knights, duchesses, counts, queens, kings, princesses... (even many elected officials have those titles) throwing in more modern sensibilities like 'Rey Nobody' detracts from that. It is a long time ago after all.

 

I don't have a problem with new ideas and surprises (the OT had some big surprises) but there's a difference between a plot twist and a filmmaker just giving you the finger and pulling the rug from underneath. In my opinion there was too much of the latter from Rian Johnson in this movie. JJ needs to get back to basics and come up with a script that will at least stop Mark Hamill from publicly trashing the movie. Abrams always said that Kathleen Kennedy convinced him to direct when posing the question, "Who is Luke Skywalker?" Have we gotten that answer?

 

It's an answer that an overwhelming number of people aren't satisfied with.

No matter how much those who like it whine and moan, try to come up with a million facts supporting their point of view and badger others into agreeing with them they can't change how people feel deep down.

 

There are several missteps in TLJ that must be corrected in the next movie. Otherwise, they're going to keep moving deeper and deeper down the wrong path.

For me the biggest mistake was tainting Luke's legacy. His life's work seems meaningless now in the worst way. From TFA I assumed Luke was waiting for his new apprentice the way Obi-wan & Yoda did (like poetry, it rhymes.) Or maybe he was hunting for new lore, fresh answers to ending the dark side forever, and a way to fight Snoke. His mission on Ahch-To should have been about helping others in the long run. But no... Instead, he went there to die. Literally that's the last thing in the universe I wanted to hear, it couldn't get any worse. I can't believe they thought audiences would roll over and accept this! Luke means so much to so many people, to toss it all away was unforgivable. They took away Luke's hope, his passion, and his kindness. In other words, they took everything that made Luke who he was. We spent good money to see him again and then after all this time we were handed a cynical stranger? The whole thing was so scummy. I don't think it can ever be fixed completely, but they need to find some kind of band-aid to ease our pain. Please, I just want Luke Skywalker's life to have meant something. Promise me that this wasn't all for nothing...

Mistake number two was the horrible relationship between Luke and Rey. I watched the movie with my dad like many Star Wars fans do. Of course I wanted a positive father-daughter dynamic between Luke and Rey, Star Wars has never given us that before so it would have been super special. Instead Luke was cruel to the girl who needed his help and he refused to bond with her. There was zero love between these two characters and it showed. How are fans supposed to keep loving Rey after our own hero rejects her? It's asking too much from us. The missing connection between them did a ton of damage to both characters as well as the fans and the trilogy as a whole. Especially the scene where they fought in the rain, that was such a downer and made both of them totally unlikable. My investment in Rey evaporated the moment she pushed down Mark Hamil and pulled a saber on him.

Mistake three was Rey's Heritage. If Rey was a man they would have made her Luke's daughter without a single hesitation. Women never get inheritance stories, or if they do it's extremely rare. I thought TLJ would be the movie to change all of that... I thought it would rewrite the wheel and finally allow a woman to finally pick up her father's legacy! But no, Rey is "nothing." Like most female characters, the narrative refuses to give her a history. Because the word itself is "his story" rather than "her story." Because she is a woman, she gets nothing. "You have no place in this story. You come from nothing. You are nothing." It couldn't be any clearer.

 

This. I get it they wanted to make a Star Wars film every year. They want to be the Avengers and make as much money as they can. But they should be at least 3 years. Make sure it's as good as it can be. Feels so rushed, at least in my eyes. We will see how Solo looks.