What more changes could GL make to ANH after his ROTS experience?

Sinister, I'm fresh off my ban but none the worse for wear. And I do not mean this as a bait tactic but, dude, you seem to have an answer for everything don't you?

Aesthetic changes are fine. Change the Hoth battle? Fine. Change the ANH space battle? Sure, why not. Add a couple of CGI characters? I don't see the necessity or utility of it but, fine.

The infamous "cantina scene" in ANH, from a visual standpoint, is not altered significantly. What I perceive (of course, my opinion only) to have changed is Han Solo's care free, smuggler/pirate, lawbreaker mentality. Let's face it, he's a smuggler; he works for Jabba; he's doing illegal activity, i.e. - he's a criminal. If he gets cornered, he's gonna come out blazing. Him shooting Greedo, when Greedo obviously was going to kill him anyway, is entirely consistent with his character. Shoot first, ask questions later.

The 1st change made alters his character such that, now, he will "shoot only if shot upon first". The 2nd change, with both shooting together, seems to repair it somewhat, with han being "quicker at the trigger".

But it raises a question as to what George is really doing. Was this what he really wanted back in 1977, despite everyone around him at the time stating otherwise? Have his sensibilities changed? If so, are more of these moments in the OT up for the chopping/altering block? It just begs the question. But, my opinion only.

 

What I don't understand is the fact that he wants to show Han as a completely fair swashbuckling person who only shoots people if hes being shot at?

When he shows Anakin as a character who is willing to kill children. But because he saves his son at the end he is a good person? Or he did good in the world?

It gives you emotional impact, but where is the common sense in that? Han was trying to save his own skin. Anakin becomes full of hate and the most feared man/machine in the galaxy. What is wrong with that? Just be straight up about it. When you try to be wishy washy, the art suffers. And thats why most people hate the greedo scene now. It wouldn't of mattered, but george made it matter..

Thankfully its not that bad on the dvds, but its still silly as hell.

 

Re: Han and Greedo. There was a quote from Lucas where he basically said he didn't see how someone who kills in cold blood could be redeemed. Of course, this makes a mockery of Anakin's redemption. His crimes were much more heinous than Solo's.

It also betrays Lucas's own intentions: he has clearly changed his mind about the Han/Greedo scene since 1977. He has changed it twice now, for heaven's sake. His "always meant to be this way" argument is rubbish.

 

I don't understand GL's need to change it. Greedo has his gun drawn at Han. That's enough of a threat that deadly force is justified. Han would have no problem pleading self defense in court.

And the way it was originally shot shows hoew quick a draw Han was, Greedo has his gun drawn and Han still gets off the first shot. In either of the changed verisons, he's more lucky than good. This 'quick draw' idea probably was more relevant in the 70s, when the Western boom of the 60s wasn't so far off. The idea if the quick draw is probably even unknow to kids today.

 

This is a great point. GL tries to justify making changes based on a 'technology of the time didn't allow me to bring my vision to the screen' argument. FIne, if you want to CGI in more ships in space shots, or more wierd aliens in the Cantina. But there was no 'technological restraint' that forced him to have Han shoot first. George, do us a favor and fllow a little bit of advice for taking multiple choice tests: go with your first thought.

 

One day, I would love to own an "Original Theatrical Version" for all 6 DVDs (which I guess is basically what we will all have after Nov. 1) and if he wants to make a "Special Edition" for all 6 DVDs where he can change whatever he wants and include all the little extras and deleted scenes into the actual movies. This way, people can buy whichever they prefer, and idiots like me will buy both.

 

Lucas changed his mind twice about the whole Han Greedo exchange, and knowing him he maye come up with some new hairbrained idea about it. no one had a problem with it and should have been left alone. Solo did what he had to do- I doubt there wan any fans questioning his character for killing something that had a gun positioned at him.

 

Maybe 25 years from now Lucas will CGI the younglings scene so it is the clone troopers who kill them. That would actually be an improvement.

Greedo, don't pull your blaster unless you intend to use it! And learn from the greatest trilogy of all time: pin Hans hand to the table with a switchblade knofe, like Luca Brazzi in The Godfather! Then Han sleeps with the fishes too, and you collect the reward.

 

I think that all the OT films should use the voice of Temeura just like Boba Fett's voice was changed to that of Jango. That's just my opinion.

 

Sapient, if that ever happens then I hope Morrison does a better job than his "phoned-in" Boba Fett lines in ESB. That should have been left well alone.

 

"Phoned in" Boba.

That reminds me of the DVD commentary, "We just Sio Bibbled him into the scene."

 

Well I'm glad it wasn't "left alone" because if Bobas a pure genetic replication of Jango..it dosen't make much sense to have them NOT sound alike does it?

 

Well, in the PT that would be the case. By the time of the OT, not all stormtroopers were simply clones of Jango Fett. Can you hold a blaster? Yes? Good, you're a stormtrooper.

 

Sapes...I said BOBA MAN!!! not the stormtroopers!

 

I agree with you that Boba should have been changed. I was speaking on the other general topic of stormtroopers only.

 

Personally I think it was a good idea to say the clones in the OT were not from Fett DNA. It's unbelievable that a clone from those genes would miss as much as they do.

 

I totally see the logic in not having the stormtroopers in Ep. IV-VI sound like Jango-and it makes perfect sense to me!! So it's fine...

BUT

If it were MY choice, I would actually choose to have ALL the Stormtroopers have Jango's voice.

WHY?

Well, it's ONLY MY OPINION and PREFERENCE, (so NO BASHING) but I would have enjoyed it better if they all have Jango's voice (like in the prequels). I think that would be great, from a CONTINUITY standpoint!! I mean that could really help bring things together even more.

 

Yeah, so.

So just cause he's a criminal, he has to kill people in cold blood? That's as bad as the sterotype that Italians are all in the Mafia or Jewish people are all money grubbers.

Only Lucas knows for sure why he changed the scene or what he originally wanted. Either way, he made the change.

 

"So just cause he's a criminal, he has to kill people in cold blood?"

It's not cold blooded when someone has you at gun point. It's self defense. In the original version of this scene, Greedo has a weapon pointed at Han and clearly indicates that he is going to kill him. Han had every right to use lethal force because he was led to believe that his life was in danger.

You don't have to wait until the badguy pulls the trigger to shoot back. In the real world people don't dodge bullets and it would certainly be harder to duck at the speed of light.

 

Han doesn't really dodge the blast - Greedo misses because he's drunk.



Alcohol is bad for the brain
/LM

 

I didn't say that it was stupid to not fire first. I'm just saying that it has to do with Lucas' morality tale. One in which he equates cold blooded murder as an irredeemable act. Han killing in cold blood without being fired upon first, is something that Lucas feels isn't right. Instead, he chooses to have them fire at the same time now. This way, Han can eventually redeem himself for being selfish and greedy. BTW, Anakin doesn't ever get to redeem himself. Lucas has made this clear in the Making Of ROTS.

"It really has to do with learning," Lucas says, "Children teach you compassion. They teach you to love unconditionally. Anakin can't be redeemed for all the pain and suffering he's caused. He doesn't right the wrongs, but he stops the horror. The end of the Saga is simply Anakin saying, I care about this person, regardless of what it means to me. I will throw away everything that I have, everything that I've grown to love- primarily the Emperor- and throw away my life, to save this person. And I'm doing it because he has faith in me; he loves me despite all the horrible things I've done. I broke his mother's heart, but he still cares about me, and I can't let that die. Anakin is very different in the end. The thing of it is: The prophecy was right. Anakin was the chosen one, and he does bring balance to the Force. He takes the one ounce of good still left in him and destroys the Emperor out of compassion for his son."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 221

"The part I am working on now is mostly about Darth Vader, who he is, where he came from, how he became Luke and Leia's father, what his relationship to Ben is. In Jedi, the film is really about the Redemption of this fallen angel. Ben is the fitting good angel, and Vader is the bad angel who started off good. All these years Ben has been waiting for Luke to come of age so that he can become a Jedi and redeem his father. That's what Ben has been doing, but you don't know this in the first film."

--George Lucas, Star Wars-A New Hope: The Annotated Screenplays, 1997

"And obviously there are two sides to the redeemer motif in the Star Wars films. Ultimately Vader is redeemed by his children and especially by having children. Because that's what life is all about?procreating and raising children, and it should bring out the best of you."

--George Lucas

Anakin is redeemed by his son doing what he failed to do, become a compassionate Jedi Knight. And he chooses to stop being evil and selfish, which allows him to become good again.

 

Sinister, I was being sarcastic. The fact that you have an answer for everything does not necessarily mean its the right answer. But enough of that.

So just cause he's a criminal, he has to kill people in cold blood? That's as bad as the sterotype that Italians are all in the Mafia or Jewish people are all money grubbers.


So...you're saying Greedo got a raw deal? Greedo didn't deserve to die? Which is it? And how is it cold blood when you have a gun pointed at you. Greedo was going to kill him. The fact that both were criminals and worked for the same guy means that whoever was going to survive was the one that fired first.

Only Lucas knows for sure why he changed the scene or what he originally wanted. Either way, he made the change.

I would venture a guess that even he doesn't know. And since he made the change, we should accept it as gospel? Do you see where I'm going with this? Just because he changed it doesn't mean its a good change. And if he has had some sort of change in sensibilities, I think we're in store for a significant number of changes beyond the aesthetic.

I didn't say that it was stupid to not fire first. I'm just saying that it has to do with Lucas' morality tale. One in which he equates cold blooded murder as an irredeemable act. Han killing in cold blood without being fired upon first, is something that Lucas feels isn't right. Instead, he chooses to have them fire at the same time now. This way, Han can eventually redeem himself for being selfish and greedy. BTW, Anakin doesn't ever get to redeem himself. Lucas has made this clear in the Making Of ROTS.


Ok, but wait, you've posted some contradictory statements. He considers (at least right now) han's actions to be irredeemable by firing first. And later on he gets redeemed by helping the alliance. But then you say Anakin doesn't get to redeem himself. You're differentiating redemption for oneself versus redemption of a character by another person.

Anakin is redeemed. Plain and simple. You've said as much in the excerpts you just posted. His son redeems him. Anakin, without question or hesitation, kills all the younglings in the room. But he is redeemed by his son. Now you're saying Han can't be redeemed because he shot Greedo first?!?! Unbelievable.

How can Lucas give a free pass at redemption to Anakin for slaughtering children but for some reason feels that Han can't be redeemed because he shot greedo first?

 

I think sinister is referring to the cut dialogue between Anakin and obi wan where a burnt anakin asks obi wan for help.{help me master} Obi wan declines.{youre evil I can't help you} Lucas cut this because he didn't want Anakin to redeem himself in this film, and asking Obi Wan for help might lead the audience to think he was sorry for his actions.

 

Funny, you people act as if GL if forcing you to buy these things. Nobody forced you all to buy the SE VHS set. Nobody forced you to buy the OT DVD Set. And if GL comes out with some super Saga Edition with changes in the OT, well GL isn't making you buy it. Don't like the changes, then just stick with the original OT DVD set or the SE VHS or if you're really old school, then the original VHS sets.

I mean really, it isn't that big of an issue. If GL wants to go back and change up the OT to go better with the PT, then let him do it. If you don't like it well don't buy them or watch them. Simple as that.

 

You forgot to add to tell them not to come here and bash those who have bought them and enjoy them. There is a classic trilogy forum right?